[00:00:00 –> 00:00:01] Peace, everybody. Fr. Angelus here.
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[00:00:33 –> 00:00:38] (vocalist singing in foreign language)
[00:00:39 –> 00:00:41] Hey, I’m Fr. Mark-Mary.
[00:00:41 –> 00:00:43] Hey, everybody, Fr. Innocent here.
[00:00:43 –> 00:00:44] Hey, everyone, Fr. Angelus.
[00:00:44 –> 00:00:47] I’m back second episode. Impressive I know.
[00:00:47 –> 00:00:50] Hey, quick question. Do you have a new habit on?
[00:00:50 –> 00:00:51] Thank you for noticing.
[00:00:51 –> 00:00:53] I have a new habit, everyone.
[00:00:53 –> 00:00:55] It’s a new material, the new color, the darker gray.
[00:00:55 –> 00:00:57] No one can really see it, but I noticed.
[00:00:57 –> 00:00:59] The darker gray is in.
[00:00:59 –> 00:01:00] Who made it?
[00:01:00 –> 00:01:02] Our friends in, one of my friends,
[00:01:02 –> 00:01:04] Marianne Rowling in Texas.
[00:01:04 –> 00:01:05] Oh, interesting.
[00:01:05 –> 00:01:07] Is that a common thing that she does?
[00:01:07 –> 00:01:10] She made five habits within the last two months,
[00:01:10 –> 00:01:11] I think, for guys.
[00:01:11 –> 00:01:12] Okay. – Sweet.
[00:01:12 –> 00:01:16] So who’s making the habits for the soon to be novices?
[00:01:16 –> 00:01:19] Brother Kolbe was just here and he, it’s great.
[00:01:19 –> 00:01:20] Like the week with Brother Kolbe
[00:01:20 –> 00:01:21] when he’s around with the guys,
[00:01:21 –> 00:01:22] he helps them with their habits,
[00:01:22 –> 00:01:24] helps them with the robes, the rosaries.
[00:01:24 –> 00:01:25] Yeah, it’s kind of like-
[00:01:25 –> 00:01:27] Fr. Mark-Mary, you remember just kind of the,
[00:01:27 –> 00:01:30] it’s fun space where guys make their robes,
[00:01:30 –> 00:01:32] they get their habits, they try them on,
[00:01:32 –> 00:01:32] all that good stuff.
[00:01:32 –> 00:01:34] I think I sent pictures to you both.
[00:01:34 –> 00:01:35] I don’t know if you remember that or not,
[00:01:35 –> 00:01:37] but it was awesome.
[00:01:37 –> 00:01:39] So those guys are,
[00:01:39 –> 00:01:41] it’s the old habits hanging on the back of the door now.
[00:01:41 –> 00:01:43] It’s like staring at them, so.
[00:01:43 –> 00:01:45] How was the process of like,
[00:01:45 –> 00:01:47] so the process here is the guys,
[00:01:47 –> 00:01:51] like the first 10 months more or less, is called postulancy.
[00:01:51 –> 00:01:55] The guys wear sandals, gray pants, long sleeve,
[00:01:55 –> 00:01:58] button down collared shirt, cross.
[00:01:58 –> 00:02:01] And now as they enter to novitiate, they actually like,
[00:02:01 –> 00:02:02] technically when you’re a postulate,
[00:02:02 –> 00:02:04] you’re not formally part of the community.
[00:02:04 –> 00:02:05] But when you become a novice,
[00:02:05 –> 00:02:07] you’re like formally part of the community
[00:02:07 –> 00:02:11] and then you get your habit, your religious name.
[00:02:12 –> 00:02:14] I don’t know, like how was the process for you
[00:02:14 –> 00:02:17] kind of walking the guys through getting their habits,
[00:02:17 –> 00:02:19] getting fitted,
[00:02:19 –> 00:02:21] and then particularly like discerning their names?
[00:02:21 –> 00:02:24] Yeah, the name, it was fun seeing them get their habits
[00:02:24 –> 00:02:25] and seeing them,
[00:02:26 –> 00:02:28] like we took a picture with everything on it.
[00:02:28 –> 00:02:30] I’m like, “Man, you guys look like friars,”
[00:02:30 –> 00:02:31] which is really great.
[00:02:32 –> 00:02:37] The interesting thing is the names is just fun
[00:02:37 –> 00:02:40] to have the guys to pray, pray through names,
[00:02:40 –> 00:02:43] wrestle with names, present the names to our superior
[00:02:43 –> 00:02:46] and then wondering if he’s gonna approve them or not.
[00:02:46 –> 00:02:48] And so it’s a big,
[00:02:48 –> 00:02:51] obviously discerning a name is quite personal, right?
[00:02:51 –> 00:02:53] And quite like, man, this is, in so many ways,
[00:02:53 –> 00:02:57] a part of my identity, what people are gonna call me,
[00:02:57 –> 00:02:58] like what the hell the Lord sees me.
[00:02:58 –> 00:03:00] And so I think the guys did a great job.
[00:03:00 –> 00:03:01] And I think the names they settled on
[00:03:01 –> 00:03:03] and the names that have been approved are really beautiful.
[00:03:03 –> 00:03:05] And so I know the community always looks forward
[00:03:05 –> 00:03:07] to hearing their names.
[00:03:07 –> 00:03:09] But it was exciting for them, so.
[00:03:09 –> 00:03:11] And it was pretty non-dramatic, I think.
[00:03:11 –> 00:03:14] There was a tweak by the superior in one of the names.
[00:03:16 –> 00:03:18] But mostly, people got what they desired
[00:03:18 –> 00:03:21] and what they had prayed about, so.
[00:03:21 –> 00:03:24] Do you feel any, like, is there an heavy, like,
[00:03:24 –> 00:03:26] ’cause it’s, you know, they’re picking their name,
[00:03:26 –> 00:03:28] which, you know, potentially is what people call them
[00:03:28 –> 00:03:29] for the rest of their lives.
[00:03:29 –> 00:03:31] And it’s a new name and it’s not the name necessarily
[00:03:31 –> 00:03:32] that their parents gave them.
[00:03:32 –> 00:03:36] Like, does it feel like, is there like a gravitas,
[00:03:36 –> 00:03:37] like an intensity to it?
[00:03:37 –> 00:03:40] Or is it like, you just kind of have confidence in the Lord
[00:03:40 –> 00:03:42] and in the process and feel good about it?
[00:03:42 –> 00:03:43] There’s some gravitas,
[00:03:43 –> 00:03:45] especially because their families come to visit
[00:03:45 –> 00:03:48] and they get to share with their families the name.
[00:03:48 –> 00:03:52] And I think moms particular blessing all the postulant moms
[00:03:52 –> 00:03:54] out there who, they don’t necessarily struggle,
[00:03:54 –> 00:03:55] but they try to navigate,
[00:03:55 –> 00:03:56] “Well, this is the name I gave you,
[00:03:56 –> 00:03:57] but now, you’re taking a new name.”
[00:03:57 –> 00:04:00] And so I think people feel that with their families,
[00:04:00 –> 00:04:01] but I think there is gravitas.
[00:04:01 –> 00:04:03] I think for the guys, I think they’re really excited
[00:04:03 –> 00:04:05] and it’s really profound for them
[00:04:05 –> 00:04:08] to enter into the name discernment, but they’re also,
[00:04:08 –> 00:04:12] Fr. Innocent beautifully kind of ushered in
[00:04:12 –> 00:04:15] this experience where guys write,
[00:04:15 –> 00:04:17] they’re attentive to their prayer throughout the year,
[00:04:17 –> 00:04:19] but also their identity in the Lord
[00:04:19 –> 00:04:20] and how the Lord uses them,
[00:04:20 –> 00:04:22] how the Lord sees them, what the Lord calls them.
[00:04:22 –> 00:04:26] And so he, towards the end here, actually in a couple days,
[00:04:26 –> 00:04:27] we’re gonna go through their identity statements,
[00:04:27 –> 00:04:31] which is kind of like this revelation
[00:04:31 –> 00:04:35] of how they see themselves or experience themselves in God.
[00:04:35 –> 00:04:39] And often, their names are very much linked to that,
[00:04:39 –> 00:04:40] like who they are, right?
[00:04:40 –> 00:04:42] And so it does feel big.
[00:04:42 –> 00:04:45] It does feel like there’s a beautiful opportunity
[00:04:45 –> 00:04:47] for the guys to do something profound,
[00:04:47 –> 00:04:49] and I think they feel that.
[00:04:49 –> 00:04:52] And in so many ways, I think that they feel the gravitas
[00:04:52 –> 00:04:53] of it and the community’s like,
[00:04:53 –> 00:04:55] “Oh yeah, those are great names. They’re all approved.”
[00:04:55 –> 00:04:56] And you’re like, “Oh, okay.”
[00:04:56 –> 00:04:59] It’s like maybe a bit of a less of a gravitas,
[00:04:59 –> 00:05:02] but I think it’s all gonna come together here soon.
[00:05:02 –> 00:05:03] So it’d be beautiful.
[00:05:05 –> 00:05:07] And how many guys are there? Six?
[00:05:07 –> 00:05:07] Four.
[00:05:07 –> 00:05:08] Four.
[00:05:08 –> 00:05:09] Yep, four.
[00:05:10 –> 00:05:13] Okay. I guess I knew that.
[00:05:14 –> 00:05:15] All right.
[00:05:15 –> 00:05:19] Well, look, we won’t sort of get,
[00:05:19 –> 00:05:20] we’ll wait until it formally happens.
[00:05:20 –> 00:05:22] How many days away is investiture?
[00:05:23 –> 00:05:28] It is, yeah, like it’s on July, what is it? 21st.
[00:05:28 –> 00:05:30] So we got about-
[00:05:30 –> 00:05:31] Okay. – Yeah.
[00:05:31 –> 00:05:33] It’s exciting.
[00:05:33 –> 00:05:34] We always put a picture out.
[00:05:34 –> 00:05:35] I think the world waits, right?
[00:05:36 –> 00:05:38] The parents wait, the friends wait.
[00:05:38 –> 00:05:40] All sorts of people wait for that picture.
[00:05:40 –> 00:05:42] Yeah, we’re gonna have to coordinate that
[00:05:42 –> 00:05:43] ’cause I’m not gonna be there,
[00:05:43 –> 00:05:44] so if you were coming, somebody send it to me.
[00:05:44 –> 00:05:47] Yeah, maybe Rosann will do it or something, but my friend.
[00:05:47 –> 00:05:49] All right.
[00:05:49 –> 00:05:50] Fr. Innocent, not to keep going on this,
[00:05:50 –> 00:05:51] but Fr. Innocent,
[00:05:51 –> 00:05:53] I have to write my first investiture homily,
[00:05:53 –> 00:05:56] so you’re gonna have to give me some advice on that.
[00:05:56 –> 00:05:57] Awesome.
[00:05:57 –> 00:06:00] Yeah, it’s a good one. It’s a good one.
[00:06:00 –> 00:06:02] I feel like that, ’cause I got to do a,
[00:06:03 –> 00:06:05] right, as a priest, you kind of get invited
[00:06:05 –> 00:06:07] into some unique situations.
[00:06:07 –> 00:06:11] And one year, I think it was around just after COVID,
[00:06:11 –> 00:06:13] I was helping the Sisters of Life a lot.
[00:06:13 –> 00:06:17] And so I got invited to preside over their investiture mass
[00:06:17 –> 00:06:19] and give a investiture homily.
[00:06:19 –> 00:06:21] Look at you, sweet. That’s awesome.
[00:06:21 –> 00:06:23] And it, you know, it’s different to sisters.
[00:06:23 –> 00:06:24] That might be,
[00:06:26 –> 00:06:28] that’s definitely one of my top three homilies.
[00:06:28 –> 00:06:29] Wow.
[00:06:29 –> 00:06:31] I felt very good about it.
[00:06:31 –> 00:06:32] That’s seems great.
[00:06:32 –> 00:06:34] I particularly do not,
[00:06:34 –> 00:06:37] it’s a great suffering and I’m totally serious.
[00:06:37 –> 00:06:39] It is a great suffering for me.
[00:06:39 –> 00:06:41] Well, it sounds dramatic.
[00:06:41 –> 00:06:42] Let me say this.
[00:06:42 –> 00:06:45] A great struggle to preach in front of the brothers.
[00:06:45 –> 00:06:46] It’s a thing for me.
[00:06:46 –> 00:06:51] So it kind of plays on all my core wounds, so it’s hard.
[00:06:51 –> 00:06:53] Bro, I’m gonna own it and just kill it.
[00:06:53 –> 00:06:54] Just get after it. You know what I mean?
[00:06:54 –> 00:06:55] I’m just kidding.
[00:06:55 –> 00:06:57] I’m just kidding, totally kidding.
[00:06:57 –> 00:06:57] That’s awesome.
[00:06:58 –> 00:07:00] Yeah, it’s an intimidating group.
[00:07:02 –> 00:07:05] All right, guys. So here we are.
[00:07:05 –> 00:07:09] And we’re continuing our journey of silence being led
[00:07:09 –> 00:07:14] by Fr. Innocent, formerly, well, I mean, back in the day,
[00:07:15 –> 00:07:16] we called him the Sultan of Silence.
[00:07:16 –> 00:07:19] I don’t know if all of our listeners remember that.
[00:07:19 –> 00:07:20] But it’s like a real thing.
[00:07:20 –> 00:07:23] It’s not just sort of like a funny thing.
[00:07:23 –> 00:07:25] And we’re going through, what’s the name of the book?
[00:07:25 –> 00:07:29] “Holy Silence” by Fr. Basil Nortz.
[00:07:29 –> 00:07:29] Okay.
[00:07:29 –> 00:07:32] And it’s on the journey through silence.
[00:07:32 –> 00:07:34] And I guess, maybe I just wanna kind of go back
[00:07:34 –> 00:07:38] to one of the foundational kind of questions is,
[00:07:38 –> 00:07:39] ’cause again, like,
[00:07:42 –> 00:07:45] I don’t know that I fully understand silence the way we’re
[00:07:45 –> 00:07:47] using it because it does seem like absence.
[00:07:47 –> 00:07:49] It seems like nothing, right?
[00:07:49 –> 00:07:50] It’s like shh.
[00:07:50 –> 00:07:51] And so even, you know,
[00:07:51 –> 00:07:54] the idea of silence being an attribute of God
[00:07:54 –> 00:07:56] who is like, you know, the eternal word,
[00:08:00 –> 00:08:02] can you just help me, before we kind of get into the silence
[00:08:02 –> 00:08:04] of the imagination, what we’re going to talk about today,
[00:08:04 –> 00:08:09] like, help me define it or understand it.
[00:08:11 –> 00:08:11] Yeah, and it’s interesting.
[00:08:11 –> 00:08:15] I’m not gonna, I’m definitely going to answer your question,
[00:08:15 –> 00:08:17] but also, I’m just gonna remind all of us
[00:08:17 –> 00:08:20] that when we talk about the silence of God,
[00:08:20 –> 00:08:23] we’re talking about a profound mystery, right?
[00:08:23 –> 00:08:27] So it’s an experience we kind of stand before, right,
[00:08:27 –> 00:08:28] in our prayer.
[00:08:29 –> 00:08:33] So we also just need to know that we’re standing
[00:08:33 –> 00:08:36] before a profound, transcendent, divine mystery,
[00:08:36 –> 00:08:39] which is when we talk about the silence of God,
[00:08:39 –> 00:08:42] which we get to share in, right?
[00:08:42 –> 00:08:47] Because I do think, just for the sake of teaching here,
[00:08:47 –> 00:08:50] that when we do talk about silence, like in a human way,
[00:08:50 –> 00:08:53] it means like, “Hey, everybody be quiet.”
[00:08:53 –> 00:08:56] You know, so-and-so is going to take a nap, right?
[00:08:56 –> 00:08:57] So we’re like, we’re very aware
[00:08:57 –> 00:09:00] that the atmosphere around us,
[00:09:00 –> 00:09:04] we’re kind of turning the things off that make noise
[00:09:04 –> 00:09:08] or trying, you know, trying to keep some sort
[00:09:08 –> 00:09:12] of stability on the outside that doesn’t make noise.
[00:09:12 –> 00:09:15] But again, we are talking about that, right,
[00:09:15 –> 00:09:17] in an exterior way.
[00:09:17 –> 00:09:21] But when we talk about silence as an attribute of God,
[00:09:23 –> 00:09:26] there’s different ways or different words we can use
[00:09:26 –> 00:09:27] that get at it, right?
[00:09:29 –> 00:09:31] Because when we talk about the silence of God,
[00:09:31 –> 00:09:36] we’re talking about a way of living in relationship,
[00:09:37 –> 00:09:40] a way kind of being with God, right?
[00:09:40 –> 00:09:44] So we talk about, we can talk about stillness.
[00:09:45 –> 00:09:47] We can talk about recollection.
[00:09:48 –> 00:09:52] We can talk about this connection I have with God
[00:09:52 –> 00:09:57] where my humanity experience is kind of like this union
[00:09:58 –> 00:10:00] or kind of rest.
[00:10:01 –> 00:10:06] I experience a rest where I can,
[00:10:07 –> 00:10:09] like enter the silence of God
[00:10:09 –> 00:10:13] and there can, just this, be this deep receiving is what-
[00:10:15 –> 00:10:17] Reciprocity, receptivity?
[00:10:17 –> 00:10:18] Yeah. Receptivity is what I was going for.
[00:10:18 –> 00:10:20] Those words were like conjoining in my mind.
[00:10:22 –> 00:10:25] Where I can experience just to,
[00:10:25 –> 00:10:28] like a new relationship with God
[00:10:28 –> 00:10:30] where I can receive his presence.
[00:10:30 –> 00:10:35] Right, so we are talking about deep realities here.
[00:10:35 –> 00:10:36] But we are talking, again,
[00:10:36 –> 00:10:39] we’re talking about an attribute
[00:10:39 –> 00:10:42] or a characteristic in experience
[00:10:42 –> 00:10:46] rather than merely self-control
[00:10:46 –> 00:10:51] or discipline kind of exterior or interior things.
[00:10:51 –> 00:10:54] So with all of that said, I think it’s really important.
[00:10:54 –> 00:10:55] This is something we have,
[00:10:55 –> 00:10:58] like silence is something we have to practice.
[00:10:58 –> 00:11:00] And there’s always a supernatural
[00:11:00 –> 00:11:04] and natural kind of movement, right?
[00:11:04 –> 00:11:06] You can’t just like, like I said,
[00:11:06 –> 00:11:10] we can’t just have the exterior atmosphere all turned down
[00:11:10 –> 00:11:13] and then be like, “Okay, ready, silence? Go,” right?
[00:11:13 –> 00:11:15] Like, that’s not what we’re talking about.
[00:11:15 –> 00:11:17] Because silence, I think, like,
[00:11:19 –> 00:11:21] this is funny to say and even more kind of mystical,
[00:11:21 –> 00:11:23] but silence is a relationship.
[00:11:23 –> 00:11:28] Like, is like an on ramp to a presence of God.
[00:11:28 –> 00:11:31] It’s not something we can control.
[00:11:31 –> 00:11:36] So with that said, when we practice silence,
[00:11:37 –> 00:11:39] there’s always needs to be those two movements.
[00:11:39 –> 00:11:44] “Yes, I need to go, I need to turn off the TV
[00:11:44 –> 00:11:46] or take my earbuds out.
[00:11:46 –> 00:11:48] Yes, I need to find a quiet space
[00:11:48 –> 00:11:52] that has less noise or no noise.
[00:11:52 –> 00:11:56] But then also, I have to enter my interior store room.”
[00:11:56 –> 00:11:58] That’s what the gospel of Matthew says,
[00:11:58 –> 00:12:00] to go to your interior store room.
[00:12:00 –> 00:12:02] And it says that the Father,
[00:12:02 –> 00:12:05] or, yeah, the Father who sees in secret
[00:12:06 –> 00:12:09] will give himself to us.
[00:12:10 –> 00:12:12] And so that’s the supernatural reality
[00:12:12 –> 00:12:17] that I have to step into this place where God dwells,
[00:12:17 –> 00:12:19] and somehow God loves that.
[00:12:19 –> 00:12:21] Like, God waits for me there.
[00:12:21 –> 00:12:23] And so this is like, again, in the interior store room,
[00:12:23 –> 00:12:28] it just has this sense of silence, of rest,
[00:12:28 –> 00:12:31] of being with God in a different way.
[00:12:32 –> 00:12:36] And then in that space, I have a lot more to things to say
[00:12:36 –> 00:12:39] about contemplative prayer in that space,
[00:12:39 –> 00:12:42] but it demands a kind of an interior stillness,
[00:12:42 –> 00:12:43] rest, and silence.
[00:12:45 –> 00:12:45] I would love-
[00:12:45 –> 00:12:47] So if I can kind of unpack it, ’cause I think that,
[00:12:47 –> 00:12:49] as you kind of share it like that,
[00:12:49 –> 00:12:53] and there’s, I don’t know that there’s synonyms,
[00:12:53 –> 00:12:57] but there’s sort of parallels with, like the word stillness.
[00:12:57 –> 00:12:59] I think the word rest.
[00:12:59 –> 00:13:00] And even- – Recollection.
[00:13:00 –> 00:13:04] I think, like a completion.
[00:13:04 –> 00:13:06] What we’re talking about is like,
[00:13:06 –> 00:13:08] ’cause like the Sabbath rest and rest,
[00:13:10 –> 00:13:12] it’s not actually just about not doing,
[00:13:12 –> 00:13:16] but it’s about doing fully what we’re made for.
[00:13:18 –> 00:13:22] You know, I mean, like part of our keeping the Sunday
[00:13:22 –> 00:13:24] and the Sunday rest is going to worship.
[00:13:24 –> 00:13:26] Lik, that’s part of it, you know?
[00:13:26 –> 00:13:28] And, like, I don’t know.
[00:13:29 –> 00:13:32] I like this stillness that in some way,
[00:13:32 –> 00:13:34] or the silence that we’re talking about,
[00:13:34 –> 00:13:35] in some way, it is like,
[00:13:37 –> 00:13:39] it is the fullness and like fulfillment
[00:13:39 –> 00:13:44] and even maybe a completion of giving and receiving
[00:13:48 –> 00:13:50] of speaking and hearing.
[00:13:51 –> 00:13:52] ‘Cause that’s like in the word,
[00:13:52 –> 00:13:55] like, there is this eternal word,
[00:13:55 –> 00:13:57] like, eternally, perfectly given,
[00:13:57 –> 00:13:59] eternally, perfectly received.
[00:14:01 –> 00:14:04] Is there a certain way in which the silence can be
[00:14:04 –> 00:14:08] understood as, like, a perfection or a fulfillment?
[00:14:08 –> 00:14:10] Does that feel good?
[00:14:10 –> 00:14:12] That feels so good. I absolutely love it.
[00:14:12 –> 00:14:14] Yep, I absolutely love it.
[00:14:16 –> 00:14:18] I’m just thinking of this image of a,
[00:14:18 –> 00:14:23] say, that a wife is out and she comes back in
[00:14:23 –> 00:14:27] and to an empty home.
[00:14:29 –> 00:14:32] And she gets there and, say, she has her EarPods in
[00:14:32 –> 00:14:32] and she’s listening to all,
[00:14:32 –> 00:14:34] like, not even bad things
[00:14:34 –> 00:14:36] but just listening to a lot of things.
[00:14:36 –> 00:14:38] And she like, just goes about
[00:14:38 –> 00:14:40] whatever she’s doing in the home
[00:14:40 –> 00:14:44] and she doesn’t see the flowers on the table,
[00:14:46 –> 00:14:48] which were a gift from her husband
[00:14:48 –> 00:14:50] because of just the reality of the distractedness
[00:14:50 –> 00:14:52] of how she enters the home, right?
[00:14:53 –> 00:14:57] Rewind that, and she’s trying to live this recollected,
[00:14:57 –> 00:15:00] still present to reality way of living.
[00:15:00 –> 00:15:02] And so she doesn’t have her EarPods in
[00:15:02 –> 00:15:03] when she comes into the home.
[00:15:03 –> 00:15:04] The home’s quiet,
[00:15:04 –> 00:15:07] and then she notices the flowers on the table.
[00:15:09 –> 00:15:12] She notices, and then has this beautiful experience
[00:15:12 –> 00:15:16] in this beautiful moment of recognizing the gift,
[00:15:16 –> 00:15:17] recognizing the one she loves,
[00:15:17 –> 00:15:19] recognizing someone thinking about her,
[00:15:19 –> 00:15:23] someone offering her this gift of these flowers, right?
[00:15:23 –> 00:15:24] And then something happens inside of her.
[00:15:24 –> 00:15:26] it’s a beautiful relational moment.
[00:15:26 –> 00:15:27] It’s a mystical moment.
[00:15:27 –> 00:15:30] It’s a moment where she could be flooded with emotion,
[00:15:30 –> 00:15:30] flooded with gratitude,
[00:15:30 –> 00:15:34] flooded with a recognition of the gift, right?
[00:15:34 –> 00:15:38] And so it feels like the silence that is created in a space
[00:15:38 –> 00:15:42] where she’s available to this gift
[00:15:42 –> 00:15:46] and receptive to this gift because she’s unplugged
[00:15:46 –> 00:15:47] and because she’s more present and available
[00:15:47 –> 00:15:49] to what’s happening in front of her, right?
[00:15:49 –> 00:15:52] And so I always loved this sense that,
[00:15:52 –> 00:15:53] like, I’m walking into a room,
[00:15:53 –> 00:15:57] and if I’m recollected and living this kind of silence,
[00:15:57 –> 00:15:58] that I’m available to what’s happening
[00:15:58 –> 00:16:00] and then I can receive the gift.
[00:16:00 –> 00:16:02] Yeah, and I love both of those examples,
[00:16:02 –> 00:16:05] I mean, the examples what we’re getting at is,
[00:16:05 –> 00:16:09] like, such a deep reality of what’s happening
[00:16:09 –> 00:16:10] in the interior parts of our lives,
[00:16:10 –> 00:16:13] especially in relationship, right?
[00:16:13 –> 00:16:17] And so if I could, if Fr. Angelus,
[00:16:18 –> 00:16:20] just to make a point, I’ll use your story
[00:16:20 –> 00:16:24] because as the wife is interiorly recollected
[00:16:24 –> 00:16:27] or resting kind of in the space,
[00:16:27 –> 00:16:31] or, and she’s just connected and fully present to God,
[00:16:31 –> 00:16:34] to herself, to her family
[00:16:34 –> 00:16:35] as she’s experiencing this silence.
[00:16:35 –> 00:16:39] Let’s say she experiences this gift.
[00:16:39 –> 00:16:42] And so in kind of the interior store room of her heart,
[00:16:42 –> 00:16:45] she just is experiencing the presence of God
[00:16:45 –> 00:16:49] and it just overflowing with life and love, right?
[00:16:49 –> 00:16:52] Well, let’s say her kids kind of run in
[00:16:52 –> 00:16:53] from outside after that.
[00:16:53 –> 00:16:54] And now, she has kids.
[00:16:54 –> 00:16:56] I think of our sister, Fr. Angelus,
[00:16:56 –> 00:17:00] like, that there’s so much noise around her,
[00:17:00 –> 00:17:04] I wonder what it’s like 20 minutes, an hour later,
[00:17:04 –> 00:17:09] where she remembers again the gesture of love.
[00:17:10 –> 00:17:13] Or her husband comes home, and in the craziness of all,
[00:17:13 –> 00:17:17] she gets to look at him, and there’s no words, right?
[00:17:18 –> 00:17:22] But there is this beholding in silence,
[00:17:22 –> 00:17:26] meaning, there’s something interior about it
[00:17:28 –> 00:17:30] where she gets to remember again
[00:17:31 –> 00:17:36] and she gets to go to that place again of just being,
[00:17:36 –> 00:17:40] of just experiencing love and rest in it in a new way.
[00:17:40 –> 00:17:43] So that’s why I think it’s so important that as friars,
[00:17:43 –> 00:17:47] we can have silence and rest in the middle of a crazy city.
[00:17:49 –> 00:17:53] That I think that, whether you’re married, husband,
[00:17:53 –> 00:17:55] wives, mother, father,
[00:17:55 –> 00:17:59] like, this silence is available to us all the time.
[00:17:59 –> 00:18:00] We have to practice
[00:18:00 –> 00:18:02] and we have to be disciplined and temperate,
[00:18:02 –> 00:18:06] and we have to make the decisions to,
[00:18:06 –> 00:18:10] I think, to do all these things to cultivate the ground.
[00:18:10 –> 00:18:13] But I think it’s not, it has to,
[00:18:13 –> 00:18:15] there’s something available to us always,
[00:18:15 –> 00:18:17] even though my sister has eight kids
[00:18:17 –> 00:18:19] and it’s pretty loud in the house all the time.
[00:18:19 –> 00:18:21] I don’t think she has to wait for the silence
[00:18:21 –> 00:18:23] until all the kids are grown up
[00:18:23 –> 00:18:26] and then she finally gets a house she can control.
[00:18:27 –> 00:18:30] I think there’s something of this silence and stillness
[00:18:30 –> 00:18:34] and rest, Sabbath available for us
[00:18:34 –> 00:18:37] as we practice and as we lean into the grace.
[00:18:37 –> 00:18:39] Father, if I can only add real quickly, like you,
[00:18:39 –> 00:18:42] in saying that, like, okay, her kids run in.
[00:18:42 –> 00:18:45] But when you live this way
[00:18:45 –> 00:18:50] and you receive the gifts of intimacy, then,
[00:18:50 –> 00:18:52] like, think about the way she encounters her kids
[00:18:52 –> 00:18:53] as they run in from outside.
[00:18:55 –> 00:18:57] Like, if that space that she’s in,
[00:18:57 –> 00:18:59] that she lives in a deeper communion,
[00:18:59 –> 00:19:02] a deeper connection to herself, to God,
[00:19:02 –> 00:19:04] and to those around her,
[00:19:04 –> 00:19:07] she’s fulfilled or overflowing with this gesture of love
[00:19:07 –> 00:19:09] from someone else that she was able to receive
[00:19:09 –> 00:19:13] because of the gift of this moment of silence.
[00:19:13 –> 00:19:14] Just think about the way she overflows
[00:19:14 –> 00:19:17] and into her kids as they run into the house.
[00:19:17 –> 00:19:19] Very different maybe if she was plugged in
[00:19:19 –> 00:19:23] and she was kind of scattered listening to something
[00:19:23 –> 00:19:25] and then they run in and she might just be like,
[00:19:25 –> 00:19:27] “Oh gosh, there’s a lot going on here.”
[00:19:27 –> 00:19:28] But she has this moment,
[00:19:28 –> 00:19:31] and then her kids run in and then think about the,
[00:19:31 –> 00:19:33] like you talk about her loving from her,
[00:19:33 –> 00:19:35] receiving in the interior store room.
[00:19:35 –> 00:19:37] And then the fruitfulness of that,
[00:19:37 –> 00:19:40] the presence then you can offer to other people,
[00:19:40 –> 00:19:40] like, “I’m here with you.
[00:19:40 –> 00:19:43] I see you as my kids running around me saying hello to me,”
[00:19:43 –> 00:19:45] or whatever it may be, right?
[00:19:45 –> 00:19:46] So I just think it’s beautiful.
[00:19:46 –> 00:19:47] It’s common.
[00:19:47 –> 00:19:48] I think we’re talking about,
[00:19:48 –> 00:19:52] just from Fr. Mark-Mary’s point over these past episodes,
[00:19:53 –> 00:19:55] I think we’re talking about something radical.
[00:19:55 –> 00:19:58] I think, yes, I think the grace is given,
[00:19:58 –> 00:20:03] but I do think there’s an intensity to it, right?
[00:20:03 –> 00:20:04] Do we really believe
[00:20:04 –> 00:20:07] that this silence interior recollection,
[00:20:07 –> 00:20:08] ’cause I wanna keep using that word,
[00:20:08 –> 00:20:10] this interior recollection
[00:20:10 –> 00:20:14] of me living from the store room where God dwells.
[00:20:14 –> 00:20:17] Like, is that possible even in a crazy world
[00:20:17 –> 00:20:20] when I don’t have control over a lot of noise?
[00:20:21 –> 00:20:23] So anyway, I do wanna just name it.
[00:20:23 –> 00:20:27] It’s intense, but I think grace is real.
[00:20:31 –> 00:20:32] Anyway.
[00:20:33 –> 00:20:36] And part of what’s coming to mind,
[00:20:36 –> 00:20:39] and you made the connection at the last episode
[00:20:39 –> 00:20:42] of kind of talking about purity of heart
[00:20:42 –> 00:20:43] and the area of the senses.
[00:20:43 –> 00:20:47] And I do think a lot of what we’re gonna be touching on,
[00:20:47 –> 00:20:50] really, like, there’s a way in which we could see, you know,
[00:20:50 –> 00:20:53] some of the silence of God as being portrayed
[00:20:56 –> 00:20:58] in, like, those first half of the beatitudes.
[00:20:58 –> 00:21:02] I think this gives us some good way of understanding it.
[00:21:02 –> 00:21:07] And what comes to mind for me is one of the graces really
[00:21:07 –> 00:21:11] from The Rosary in the Year journey was
[00:21:11 –> 00:21:13] really reading Jesus of Nazareth by Pope Benedict
[00:21:13 –> 00:21:17] and his definition of the kingdom of God
[00:21:17 –> 00:21:18] or the kingdom of heaven,
[00:21:18 –> 00:21:22] which is that space where God gets to be God,
[00:21:22 –> 00:21:24] where the teacher gets to teach,
[00:21:24 –> 00:21:25] where the healer gets to heal,
[00:21:25 –> 00:21:27] where the Savior gets to save.
[00:21:27 –> 00:21:32] And I think part of what we’re getting at here is a place
[00:21:32 –> 00:21:35] of vulnerability.
[00:21:35 –> 00:21:36] It’s a place of,
[00:21:38 –> 00:21:41] like, allowing God to fulfill these things
[00:21:41 –> 00:21:44] and allowing God to sort of be God in these spaces,
[00:21:44 –> 00:21:47] being receptive to the kingdom of heaven at work in us,
[00:21:47 –> 00:21:50] and not to our own control, right?
[00:21:50 –> 00:21:53] Our own devices, our own, like, manufacturing
[00:21:53 –> 00:21:57] of whatever it is that we’re going to talk about.
[00:21:57 –> 00:21:59] And so it certainly is, you know,
[00:21:59 –> 00:22:01] it’s as intense as the gospel is intense,
[00:22:01 –> 00:22:04] as intense as the the beatitudes are intense,
[00:22:04 –> 00:22:06] but also, right, like, what’s so important
[00:22:06 –> 00:22:08] about the beatitudes that we can’t miss is that
[00:22:08 –> 00:22:09] there’s a promise.
[00:22:09 –> 00:22:12] Like, the pure of heart will see God.
[00:22:12 –> 00:22:16] Those, the poor, like, the kingdom of heaven is theirs.
[00:22:16 –> 00:22:20] Those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
[00:22:20 –> 00:22:21] they will be satisfied.
[00:22:21 –> 00:22:25] And so we just want to kind of also just make sure that
[00:22:25 –> 00:22:27] what we’re talking about here is at the service
[00:22:27 –> 00:22:29] of creating space and giving Jesus permission
[00:22:29 –> 00:22:31] to fulfill his promises in us.
[00:22:33 –> 00:22:36] And so with that, if it’s okay, can we,
[00:22:36 –> 00:22:38] now, we can kind of just like pivot and kind of move,
[00:22:38 –> 00:22:41] you know we got about 20 minutes here
[00:22:41 –> 00:22:44] into the silence of the imagination.
[00:22:44 –> 00:22:45] What are we talking about here?
[00:22:45 –> 00:22:48] Yeah. So I think this is a big one
[00:22:48 –> 00:22:50] and I just wanna acknowledge,
[00:22:51 –> 00:22:52] I don’t have a lot of experience teaching.
[00:22:52 –> 00:22:55] And so when we get into, like, the philosophy
[00:22:55 –> 00:22:58] of the human person, when you talk about faculties,
[00:22:58 –> 00:23:01] imagination is that a faculty of the human person.
[00:23:01 –> 00:23:03] And if I could just say this,
[00:23:03 –> 00:23:05] this comes from the book.
[00:23:08 –> 00:23:11] Our imagination recalls the various sense data
[00:23:11 –> 00:23:13] that is stored in our memory.
[00:23:15 –> 00:23:17] All human knowledge comes through the senses
[00:23:17 –> 00:23:20] and is recalled through the imagination.
[00:23:20 –> 00:23:22] That’s why it’s super important, right?
[00:23:22 –> 00:23:24] So it builds off the senses, right?
[00:23:24 –> 00:23:28] Because once, like, our senses give us sense data
[00:23:28 –> 00:23:31] and our imagination, the faculty of the imagination stores
[00:23:31 –> 00:23:33] that in our minds.
[00:23:33 –> 00:23:37] And so therefore, I’m standing on the beach
[00:23:37 –> 00:23:42] and I am taking in the beach with all of my senses.
[00:23:43 –> 00:23:46] And so I can taste the seawater, I can smell,
[00:23:46 –> 00:23:50] I can see the waves, I can hear the waves crash on the rocks
[00:23:50 –> 00:23:53] or on the sand.
[00:23:53 –> 00:23:56] And so therefore, I can go back home.
[00:23:56 –> 00:24:00] And now, you know, I’m not standing in front
[00:24:00 –> 00:24:02] of the ocean anymore,
[00:24:02 –> 00:24:05] and I’m cooking dinner and I can think of past back my,
[00:24:05 –> 00:24:07] like, through my day.
[00:24:07 –> 00:24:11] And my imagination give, like,
[00:24:11 –> 00:24:13] helps me process the sense data.
[00:24:13 –> 00:24:16] And suddenly, my imagination is so rich.
[00:24:16 –> 00:24:19] I’m like, I can see it, I can taste it,
[00:24:19 –> 00:24:21] I can feel it, I can smell it,
[00:24:21 –> 00:24:23] like, I’m back there, right?
[00:24:23 –> 00:24:28] And so the imagination is an incredible gift for us
[00:24:28 –> 00:24:32] that helps us experience life
[00:24:32 –> 00:24:34] and the fullness of life, right?
[00:24:35 –> 00:24:36] Does that make sense?
[00:24:36 –> 00:24:40] Does anybody want to add anything to what the imagination is
[00:24:40 –> 00:24:44] as the gift that recalls, the data we get from our senses?
[00:24:44 –> 00:24:48] Anybody else wanna add to that? Is that okay?
[00:24:48 –> 00:24:49] That sounds great.
[00:24:49 –> 00:24:51] How is it different from memory?
[00:24:56 –> 00:24:58] Yeah, so- – Do you have a question?
[00:25:00 –> 00:25:01] Well, it’s interesting
[00:25:01 –> 00:25:03] because we’re gonna do memory next,
[00:25:04 –> 00:25:06] we’re gonna do memory next episode.
[00:25:06 –> 00:25:09] And so maybe we can get into that.
[00:25:09 –> 00:25:12] I’m just kind of reading through the notes here.
[00:25:14 –> 00:25:17] So like, imagination is what recalls the various sense data
[00:25:17 –> 00:25:19] that’s stored in our memory.
[00:25:19 –> 00:25:22] So the storage place is the memory
[00:25:22 –> 00:25:24] and our imagination gives us access to that,
[00:25:24 –> 00:25:26] if that makes sense.
[00:25:26 –> 00:25:30] So all the thoughts goes into my memory.
[00:25:30 –> 00:25:31] Like, all the thoughts of the beach
[00:25:31 –> 00:25:33] and the waves go into my memory,
[00:25:33 –> 00:25:35] and imagination is the faculty
[00:25:35 –> 00:25:39] that kind of grabs it and gives it access.
[00:25:39 –> 00:25:43] And so it’s, yeah, I guess it’s,
[00:25:43 –> 00:25:45] and you have a quote here.
[00:25:45 –> 00:25:47] Can you read that quote that’s from Fr.?
[00:25:48 –> 00:25:51] Yes, I have a couple there.
[00:25:51 –> 00:25:53] The we must set a guard.
[00:25:53 –> 00:25:55] Yeah, we must set a guard over our fantasies,
[00:25:55 –> 00:25:59] lest our minds become marketplaces of illusions
[00:25:59 –> 00:26:01] rather than temples of the Holy Spirit.
[00:26:01 –> 00:26:04] And so certainly, I think the way we’re coming
[00:26:04 –> 00:26:05] at it is looking at,
[00:26:07 –> 00:26:08] maybe kind of in,
[00:26:08 –> 00:26:11] like fantasies is certainly I think part
[00:26:11 –> 00:26:12] of what we’re talking about with the imagination.
[00:26:12 –> 00:26:16] And I think part of what is certainly is used
[00:26:16 –> 00:26:20] to, like, build these fantasies is kind of some
[00:26:20 –> 00:26:21] of what we’ve explored.
[00:26:21 –> 00:26:24] And also, I think it’s a way of,
[00:26:24 –> 00:26:27] like, it’s a way of moving out of reality, right?
[00:26:27 –> 00:26:29] Like, okay, here’s what could be, here’s what could happen.
[00:26:29 –> 00:26:32] Here’s what, you know, there’s something about that.
[00:26:32 –> 00:26:34] It does take us out of reality.
[00:26:36 –> 00:26:38] So how do we practice silence of the imagination?
[00:26:38 –> 00:26:39] Yeah, so here’s the thing, right?
[00:26:39 –> 00:26:41] So the senses, we’ve already talked about.
[00:26:41 –> 00:26:42] The senses give us data.
[00:26:42 –> 00:26:45] It’s stored in our memory and then our imagination uses it.
[00:26:45 –> 00:26:49] And so again, as Fr. Mark-Mary’s encouragement,
[00:26:49 –> 00:26:52] like, the imagination is a gift, right?
[00:26:52 –> 00:26:55] Like, especially, we’re gonna talk about it,
[00:26:55 –> 00:26:57] but it’s a gift for prayer.
[00:26:57 –> 00:27:01] It’s a gift for, like, again, experiencing life
[00:27:01 –> 00:27:03] and beauty and wonder, right?
[00:27:03 –> 00:27:05] Like, we can see a beautiful thing
[00:27:05 –> 00:27:08] and that beautiful thing doesn’t have to be in the distance,
[00:27:08 –> 00:27:09] but we can recall it
[00:27:09 –> 00:27:12] and experience kind of in the present moment.
[00:27:12 –> 00:27:17] But here’s the thing, our imaginations are so powerful
[00:27:17 –> 00:27:20] in accessing the stored memory,
[00:27:20 –> 00:27:23] is that what happens when our senses
[00:27:23 –> 00:27:28] and our memory have a lot of painful, broken,
[00:27:29 –> 00:27:33] lustful, seductive images or sense data.
[00:27:33 –> 00:27:36] Then our imagination can run wild.
[00:27:36 –> 00:27:39] And then instead of living in reality
[00:27:39 –> 00:27:44] where imagination helps us access the truth
[00:27:44 –> 00:27:45] of who God is or what,
[00:27:45 –> 00:27:48] like, the truth of what’s good and beautiful,
[00:27:49 –> 00:27:52] like, all that stuff, the world, that is good.
[00:27:52 –> 00:27:57] Instead, it, like, a kind of a broken imagination.
[00:27:59 –> 00:28:01] It puts us in context.
[00:28:01 –> 00:28:04] It recalls images that hurt us.
[00:28:04 –> 00:28:08] And so therefore, if our imaginations are not disciplined
[00:28:08 –> 00:28:12] and tempered or silenced is, again, we’re trying to use,
[00:28:12 –> 00:28:14] it’s not about cutting it off
[00:28:14 –> 00:28:16] or numbing it or suffocating it,
[00:28:16 –> 00:28:21] but it’s just brought under self-control.
[00:28:21 –> 00:28:23] If imagination is not purified like that,
[00:28:23 –> 00:28:24] then it can hurt us.
[00:28:24 –> 00:28:28] And therefore, we have violent images.
[00:28:28 –> 00:28:30] We have lustful images.
[00:28:30 –> 00:28:33] And we have experiences, right,
[00:28:33 –> 00:28:36] that live in our imagination.
[00:28:36 –> 00:28:38] And it can really hurt us
[00:28:38 –> 00:28:40] and it can blind us and it can wound us.
[00:28:40 –> 00:28:45] And so therefore, I just want people to see the danger
[00:28:46 –> 00:28:50] of a unbridled, unpurified imagination, right?
[00:28:50 –> 00:28:53] It’s a gift, but it can really, really hurt us.
[00:28:53 –> 00:28:55] Fr. Angelus, I know that this is,
[00:28:55 –> 00:28:57] comes up in a lot of story work.
[00:28:57 –> 00:28:59] Do you have any comments on
[00:28:59 –> 00:29:01] how the imagination also is a gift but also can hurt us?
[00:29:01 –> 00:29:03] Yeah, and Fr. Mark-Mary,
[00:29:03 –> 00:29:07] I think you, what you said is what I often tell is,
[00:29:07 –> 00:29:11] tell guys, and especially in the midst of struggling
[00:29:11 –> 00:29:14] with the impurity or impurity of the though or actions,
[00:29:14 –> 00:29:17] like, the reality is, is that Jesus lives in reality, right?
[00:29:17 –> 00:29:20] Healing happens in what’s real.
[00:29:20 –> 00:29:23] And so if anything disconnects us from reality,
[00:29:23 –> 00:29:26] and it disconnects us from what’s true,
[00:29:26 –> 00:29:28] then we’re living in a different world, right?
[00:29:28 –> 00:29:32] And so the idea that the imagination is taking the sense
[00:29:32 –> 00:29:33] data and remembering what’s true
[00:29:33 –> 00:29:35] or what’s beautiful or what’s happened,
[00:29:36 –> 00:29:38] that’s like, again, I’m thinking of childhood books,
[00:29:38 –> 00:29:41] I’m thinking of the “Lord of the Rings,”
[00:29:41 –> 00:29:42] I’m thinking of “The Chronicles of Narnia”
[00:29:42 –> 00:29:44] when we engage our imaginations.
[00:29:44 –> 00:29:46] It’s being pulled into a deeper truths
[00:29:46 –> 00:29:48] and beauty of reality.
[00:29:48 –> 00:29:50] And then what we’re doing with that in our intellect
[00:29:50 –> 00:29:53] and will is we’re engaging it to lead us
[00:29:53 –> 00:29:57] to deeper experiences of truth or goodness
[00:29:57 –> 00:29:59] or, you know, enjoyment.
[00:29:59 –> 00:30:01] I mean, when we breed kind of those kinds of things,
[00:30:01 –> 00:30:03] and so you think, again, you think about the reality
[00:30:03 –> 00:30:06] of how the imagination can, is a gift, and.
[00:30:06 –> 00:30:11] But the reality of, if we have experiences
[00:30:11 –> 00:30:15] where we have to move into a fantasy to find a fulfillment
[00:30:15 –> 00:30:18] or find safety, if somehow, again, the story work reality,
[00:30:18 –> 00:30:22] if somehow reality is not safe
[00:30:22 –> 00:30:25] or reality, I’m disconnected from people who love me,
[00:30:25 –> 00:30:29] then by choice or often not by choice,
[00:30:29 –> 00:30:32] we move into other places that aren’t real, right?
[00:30:32 –> 00:30:35] And so that’s the challenge is that how many times
[00:30:35 –> 00:30:36] in our lives have we made choices to say,
[00:30:36 –> 00:30:40] “Hey, it’s safer there. It’s better there, I want.”
[00:30:40 –> 00:30:41] And sometimes a no fault of our own,
[00:30:41 –> 00:30:44] but the reality of we’ve chosen to find a home in fantasy
[00:30:44 –> 00:30:46] and home in other ways, right?
[00:30:46 –> 00:30:50] And so it is the deep question,
[00:30:50 –> 00:30:52] and that’s why it’s awesome, Fr. Mark-Mary,
[00:30:52 –> 00:30:56] the deep question here is, like, where do I wanna live?
[00:30:57 –> 00:30:59] Do I wanna live in reality
[00:30:59 –> 00:31:01] even if reality is messy and difficult?
[00:31:01 –> 00:31:03] Or do I wanna venture off into a fantasy?
[00:31:03 –> 00:31:06] The challenge is, is that fantasies are sometimes,
[00:31:06 –> 00:31:08] they’re like, “Man, it’s comforting.”
[00:31:08 –> 00:31:10] Or, “Man, this is, for a quick minute,
[00:31:10 –> 00:31:12] this has given me what I need.”
[00:31:12 –> 00:31:13] And so I totally have a lot of sensitivity
[00:31:13 –> 00:31:16] and a lot of mercy on that.
[00:31:16 –> 00:31:17] But the challenges is our imaginations.
[00:31:17 –> 00:31:22] It’s like, what does it mean to reclaim our imagination?
[00:31:22 –> 00:31:23] What does it mean to,
[00:31:23 –> 00:31:24] and sometimes if I’m honest, guys,
[00:31:24 –> 00:31:26] it’s a little sensitive, but sometimes,
[00:31:26 –> 00:31:28] and I’m not necessarily sexual fantasies only,
[00:31:28 –> 00:31:30] but the reality of fantasy,
[00:31:30 –> 00:31:31] like, having a good conversation
[00:31:31 –> 00:31:32] about what you fantasize about
[00:31:32 –> 00:31:36] in the healing journey is super helpful and super sensitive.
[00:31:36 –> 00:31:39] But if my imagination has been distorted
[00:31:39 –> 00:31:43] or my imagination is disconnected from the gift of reality,
[00:31:44 –> 00:31:45] it’s helpful to ask somebody like,
[00:31:45 –> 00:31:46] “Hey, where are you living?
[00:31:46 –> 00:31:49] Like, how do you show up in that place?
[00:31:49 –> 00:31:52] What do you do? What do you need?” Right?
[00:31:52 –> 00:31:53] And so it’s super important.
[00:31:53 –> 00:31:56] So the gift of reality, I think, is just vital to the gift.
[00:31:56 –> 00:31:57] And again, I think we’re gonna talk about
[00:31:57 –> 00:31:58] as time goes on, fathers,
[00:31:58 –> 00:32:00] about the imagination can be a helpful tool
[00:32:00 –> 00:32:03] to lead us into intimacy, to lead us into truth.
[00:32:03 –> 00:32:05] But the enemy’s, like, I was just gonna say it’s amazing.
[00:32:05 –> 00:32:06] He’s not amazing.
[00:32:06 –> 00:32:09] The enemy’s incredibly gifted at distorting things
[00:32:09 –> 00:32:13] that lead us to be like God, to live in intimacy with God.
[00:32:13 –> 00:32:15] And the imagination and fantasies
[00:32:15 –> 00:32:18] are like a real sign of like,
[00:32:18 –> 00:32:22] man, that’s a powerful attack on the gift of who we are.
[00:32:23 –> 00:32:25] And to say a couple of things,
[00:32:25 –> 00:32:28] ’cause I think I wanna talk about,
[00:32:30 –> 00:32:32] so I’m gonna talk about like,
[00:32:32 –> 00:32:34] for example, like, I think a positive one
[00:32:34 –> 00:32:35] of this is sometimes,
[00:32:35 –> 00:32:38] I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a movie or read a book
[00:32:38 –> 00:32:40] and you’re, and it’s like, I have, there’s a few out there
[00:32:40 –> 00:32:42] that are like, this is like the type of movie
[00:32:42 –> 00:32:45] that I think makes, like, somebody a better person, right?
[00:32:45 –> 00:32:46] You know?
[00:32:46 –> 00:32:47] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:32:47 –> 00:32:48] And there can be a way
[00:32:48 –> 00:32:50] in which somebody has used their own imagination
[00:32:50 –> 00:32:53] to create this thing good that helps to connect
[00:32:53 –> 00:32:55] with another person’s imagination
[00:32:55 –> 00:32:57] and take them, if you will, into a journey
[00:32:57 –> 00:32:59] that’s ultimately deeper into reality,
[00:32:59 –> 00:33:01] deeper into these profound human truths where,
[00:33:01 –> 00:33:04] and that’s, like, what I think good art does.
[00:33:04 –> 00:33:06] Whereas, you know, on the contrary,
[00:33:06 –> 00:33:08] it can kind of bring us to a place of checking out.
[00:33:08 –> 00:33:11] So I think, like, ’cause fantasies, I think, often is like,
[00:33:12 –> 00:33:14] so what are some other fantasies that somebody could have?
[00:33:14 –> 00:33:17] Other ways of using the imagination that kind of checks out?
[00:33:17 –> 00:33:19] And I think one of these would be like,
[00:33:19 –> 00:33:21] okay, like, you’ve entered into a relationship,
[00:33:21 –> 00:33:24] and now, you’re struggling in the relationship.
[00:33:24 –> 00:33:27] And then you go back to, you know, 15 years ago
[00:33:27 –> 00:33:28] and you start thinking about your ex,
[00:33:28 –> 00:33:29] and you think about like,
[00:33:29 –> 00:33:31] “What if we actually had stayed together,” right?
[00:33:31 –> 00:33:35] And now, you’re soothing yourself
[00:33:35 –> 00:33:37] or, like, you’re kind of leaving this current reality
[00:33:37 –> 00:33:40] and kind of imagining, “Okay, what could have been?”
[00:33:40 –> 00:33:41] And like, okay, that’s not,
[00:33:41 –> 00:33:43] like, that’s checking out a reality.
[00:33:43 –> 00:33:44] That’s not gonna be helpful.
[00:33:44 –> 00:33:47] That’s actually going to make reality much harder and worse.
[00:33:47 –> 00:33:48] Or-
[00:33:48 –> 00:33:49] So what does it mean to silence that?
[00:33:49 –> 00:33:50] I think that’s the grace.
[00:33:50 –> 00:33:51] How do we bring that down under control
[00:33:51 –> 00:33:53] and not live from that truth?
[00:33:53 –> 00:33:55] That’s a great example of what we’re talking about here.
[00:33:55 –> 00:33:57] You know, I think somebody might have this with a career.
[00:33:57 –> 00:34:00] It’s like, “Okay, what if I had, you know, made this,
[00:34:00 –> 00:34:02] like, I’m here kind of struggling, grinding.
[00:34:02 –> 00:34:04] What if I had chosen a different major
[00:34:04 –> 00:34:05] and gone on a different path?”
[00:34:05 –> 00:34:07] Like, that’s something similar.
[00:34:07 –> 00:34:08] Or, it was, like, you know,
[00:34:08 –> 00:34:10] I’m a chaplain for one of the groups of Courage,
[00:34:10 –> 00:34:12] and we go through this, like,
[00:34:12 –> 00:34:15] it’s kind of like a soft Christian 12-step book.
[00:34:15 –> 00:34:17] Soft, meaning it’s like,
[00:34:17 –> 00:34:19] you know, we’re not, like, intensely working the steps.
[00:34:19 –> 00:34:22] But one of them on the, you know,
[00:34:22 –> 00:34:25] I think step eight, which is about making amends,
[00:34:25 –> 00:34:26] is it kind of gives you permission.
[00:34:26 –> 00:34:28] It has this language which I thought was really insightful.
[00:34:28 –> 00:34:30] It’s like, okay, you can also look at
[00:34:30 –> 00:34:32] how other people have hurt you.
[00:34:32 –> 00:34:35] Like, how this hurt me and this is how it made me feel.
[00:34:35 –> 00:34:37] But you’re not actually allowed
[00:34:37 –> 00:34:40] to go into why they did that.
[00:34:40 –> 00:34:41] Right, this is something that we can do,
[00:34:41 –> 00:34:42] “Okay, here’s what happened.
[00:34:42 –> 00:34:45] And now, I’m gonna like use the imagination
[00:34:45 –> 00:34:48] to go into this place where I don’t actually have access
[00:34:48 –> 00:34:52] of trying to, like, now define their motivation.
[00:34:52 –> 00:34:53] And like, that’s actually something
[00:34:53 –> 00:34:56] that’s like a misuse of the imagination.
[00:34:56 –> 00:34:56] Like, you’re not, like,
[00:34:56 –> 00:34:58] that’s not actually a helpful thing to do.
[00:34:58 –> 00:35:00] So I think this is just to kind of broaden,
[00:35:00 –> 00:35:03] like, these ways in which we can sort of check out,
[00:35:03 –> 00:35:04] “What if I’d done something different?”
[00:35:04 –> 00:35:06] What if the, you know, like, what is, you know,
[00:35:06 –> 00:35:09] imagining about another person and then their motivations
[00:35:09 –> 00:35:11] or, like, you can use the imagination
[00:35:11 –> 00:35:14] to dwell on resentment or on whatever.
[00:35:14 –> 00:35:15] Absolutely. – You know?
[00:35:15 –> 00:35:16] So I think this is-
[00:35:16 –> 00:35:18] Those are probably more perfect examples
[00:35:18 –> 00:35:19] for what we’re talking about.
[00:35:19 –> 00:35:23] I think that those happen often, Fr. Mark-Mary.
[00:35:23 –> 00:35:24] And so we have to like keep custody of that, right?
[00:35:24 –> 00:35:27] We want to, as you, you know,
[00:35:27 –> 00:35:31] if you have a lustful glance, you wanna bring it in.
[00:35:31 –> 00:35:33] You don’t want to like, you know, just dwell on it
[00:35:33 –> 00:35:34] and continue it.
[00:35:34 –> 00:35:35] It’s like with some of this stuff too,
[00:35:35 –> 00:35:38] you can feel a movement towards these,
[00:35:38 –> 00:35:40] towards going to these places.
[00:35:40 –> 00:35:41] And we want, with God’s grace,
[00:35:41 –> 00:35:44] to, like, stay in reality, stay here.
[00:35:44 –> 00:35:47] Fr. Innocent, I laugh because in the anxiety world,
[00:35:47 –> 00:35:50] like, rumination is basically a, like a fantasy.
[00:35:50 –> 00:35:51] Oh yeah, absolutely.
[00:35:51 –> 00:35:52] It’s like, I’m gonna think through a conversation.
[00:35:52 –> 00:35:54] I’m gonna pummel that guy when I talk to him, you know?
[00:35:54 –> 00:35:56] It’s just like, “Wait a second, that’s not true.
[00:35:56 –> 00:35:57] That’s not real.”
[00:35:57 –> 00:35:58] So you’re like ruminating
[00:35:58 –> 00:36:00] about I have to have these hard conversations
[00:36:00 –> 00:36:02] and you’re getting all anxious and getting all upset.
[00:36:02 –> 00:36:03] That’s not real.
[00:36:03 –> 00:36:07] You’re like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, come back, live in reality.”
[00:36:07 –> 00:36:08] And sometimes we can do that with gifts, right?
[00:36:08 –> 00:36:12] Like, when we have a wounded self-image,
[00:36:12 –> 00:36:13] like, sometimes we’re like,
[00:36:13 –> 00:36:14] “Oh, I wish my life was like that.”
[00:36:14 –> 00:36:15] Or, “I wish I had that gift.”
[00:36:15 –> 00:36:18] And so you get the envy and the jealousy,
[00:36:18 –> 00:36:22] but you’re actually, it seems so real, right?
[00:36:22 –> 00:36:25] And so, again, that’s a way where we can silence,
[00:36:25 –> 00:36:28] like, the real sense of our,
[00:36:28 –> 00:36:31] like, the imagination that attempts to,
[00:36:31 –> 00:36:34] attempts to help us taste something
[00:36:34 –> 00:36:36] that’s not necessarily true, right?
[00:36:36 –> 00:36:38] So, Fr. Mark Mary, to your question on the practicals
[00:36:38 –> 00:36:40] that was a little earlier,
[00:36:40 –> 00:36:43] I do think the silence of the imaginations,
[00:36:43 –> 00:36:46] like, putting our imagination under the control
[00:36:46 –> 00:36:48] of self-disciplined and is,
[00:36:48 –> 00:36:53] I do think it’s just really strong intentionality about,
[00:36:57 –> 00:36:59] “Okay, I’m aware of the present moment.
[00:36:59 –> 00:37:01] I have to be self-disciplined.”
[00:37:01 –> 00:37:02] Like, I think that’s it.
[00:37:02 –> 00:37:04] Like, I have to notice
[00:37:04 –> 00:37:07] when I’m getting my imagination is not anchored in reality
[00:37:07 –> 00:37:10] and not serving me in what’s true,
[00:37:10 –> 00:37:13] but really, whether it’s self-medication
[00:37:13 –> 00:37:16] or just getting distracted or checking out or daydreaming,
[00:37:16 –> 00:37:19] when I am off in La La Land.
[00:37:21 –> 00:37:24] I literally, it’s a discipline thing.
[00:37:24 –> 00:37:27] Like, that Fr. Basil gives tools and talks about, like,
[00:37:27 –> 00:37:29] I mean, and the tools aren’t complicated.
[00:37:29 –> 00:37:31] He’s like, “No, like, it’s recognizing
[00:37:31 –> 00:37:33] when the imagination’s not serving the truth
[00:37:33 –> 00:37:35] and especially of the divine.”
[00:37:35 –> 00:37:37] Like, he’s a big thing on the imagination.
[00:37:37 –> 00:37:38] And I’m gonna talk about that a little bit
[00:37:38 –> 00:37:41] ’cause St. Ignatius is really, like, big on the imagination
[00:37:41 –> 00:37:42] and maybe I could end with that.
[00:37:42 –> 00:37:46] But we have to grow in the self-discipline
[00:37:46 –> 00:37:50] to notice when our imagination is running wild
[00:37:50 –> 00:37:51] and not serving us.
[00:37:51 –> 00:37:52] When we’re living in fantasy,
[00:37:52 –> 00:37:55] we need to be good at naming those moments.
[00:37:55 –> 00:37:58] “Okay, right now, this is what’s happening.
[00:37:59 –> 00:38:01] I’m living in fantasy and not reality.
[00:38:01 –> 00:38:04] So I’m gonna come back to the present moment,” right?
[00:38:04 –> 00:38:06] And Fr. Angelus, this is a lot in, like, naming well,
[00:38:06 –> 00:38:08] story work, self-knowledge.
[00:38:08 –> 00:38:13] But I think that’s what we got to do in that context.
[00:38:13 –> 00:38:15] And what’s an interesting thing today
[00:38:15 –> 00:38:18] to attach the imagination to the senses now,
[00:38:18 –> 00:38:20] it’s like, so what do you do when your mind’s going crazy?
[00:38:20 –> 00:38:22] What you actually do is come back into your body
[00:38:22 –> 00:38:25] and back into your senses ’cause your senses are real.
[00:38:25 –> 00:38:27] Your senses aren’t like fake
[00:38:27 –> 00:38:29] or they’re not, like, living in some sort of fantasy.
[00:38:29 –> 00:38:31] So sometimes, it’s just like,
[00:38:31 –> 00:38:33] I have like a five, four, three, two, one.
[00:38:33 –> 00:38:35] I got it from somewhere, five, four, three, two, one.
[00:38:35 –> 00:38:38] So like, name five things you see,
[00:38:38 –> 00:38:43] name four things you hear, name three things you smell,
[00:38:43 –> 00:38:47] name one thing you, you know, or two things you touch
[00:38:47 –> 00:38:49] and one thing you smell.
[00:38:49 –> 00:38:52] Like, and you’re activating all the senses
[00:38:52 –> 00:38:54] and then your senses are allowing you to be more present
[00:38:54 –> 00:38:56] in your body rather than in the imagination.
[00:38:56 –> 00:38:58] It’s beautiful ’cause it’s connected, right?
[00:38:58 –> 00:38:59] And so sometimes you’re like,
[00:38:59 –> 00:39:01] “Man, my mind’s going crazy right now. What do I do?”
[00:39:01 –> 00:39:03] Well, I don’t try to think of different things.
[00:39:03 –> 00:39:05] I actually try to, what’s most real is like,
[00:39:05 –> 00:39:09] “Well, I’m seeing this broom, this lamp right now.
[00:39:09 –> 00:39:10] That’s real.
[00:39:10 –> 00:39:11] Okay, it’s bringing me back into my body.
[00:39:11 –> 00:39:14] I hear something. I smell something.
[00:39:14 –> 00:39:14] I taste something.”
[00:39:14 –> 00:39:16] And you’re like, “Okay, this would bring me back
[00:39:16 –> 00:39:20] into what’s real and not something that’s in fantasy.”
[00:39:20 –> 00:39:21] And maybe, guys,
[00:39:21 –> 00:39:23] what Fr. Mark-Mary talked about beauty, right?
[00:39:23 –> 00:39:25] Like, movies or books
[00:39:25 –> 00:39:26] that actually make you a better person.
[00:39:26 –> 00:39:30] Sometimes I think you need to get a Caravaggio painting
[00:39:30 –> 00:39:32] or you need to read “Lord of the Rings”
[00:39:32 –> 00:39:33] or you need to watch a good movie.
[00:39:33 –> 00:39:38] Like, beauty is real and it’s an on-ramp
[00:39:38 –> 00:39:40] to what’s real and true about God.
[00:39:40 –> 00:39:43] But it activates our imagination, right?
[00:39:43 –> 00:39:48] It activates, like, the truth of what’s stored
[00:39:50 –> 00:39:51] in my brain, right?
[00:39:51 –> 00:39:55] So we need to, like, we need to encounter
[00:39:55 –> 00:39:56] what’s real, right?
[00:39:56 –> 00:39:59] And so, and then when later on,
[00:39:59 –> 00:40:01] when you can recount it with your imagination,
[00:40:01 –> 00:40:04] you’re recounting real beauty and truth
[00:40:04 –> 00:40:07] rather than any distortion that comes from kind of,
[00:40:07 –> 00:40:12] the kind of the woundedness of past images.
[00:40:13 –> 00:40:15] Guys, I do really wanna talk about just real quick,
[00:40:15 –> 00:40:20] because imagination is a huge part of Ignatian prayer.
[00:40:21 –> 00:40:21] And so when you, the use of imagination is used in prayer,
[00:40:29 –> 00:40:31] it’s such a gift.
[00:40:31 –> 00:40:34] But that’s why it’s so good for it to be rightly ordered
[00:40:34 –> 00:40:36] and even silenced in the right ways
[00:40:36 –> 00:40:37] because we wanna make sure
[00:40:37 –> 00:40:40] that as we encounter God in prayer,
[00:40:40 –> 00:40:44] the imagination is at the service of communion rather than-
[00:40:44 –> 00:40:45] Distraction.
[00:40:45 –> 00:40:49] Distraction or hijack it, right?
[00:40:49 –> 00:40:51] Your imagination, let me say this.
[00:40:51 –> 00:40:53] This is also intense, whatever.
[00:40:53 –> 00:40:55] Your imagination is not God.
[00:40:57 –> 00:41:00] Even when you’re thinking about holy things, it’s not God.
[00:41:01 –> 00:41:02] But it’s always at,
[00:41:02 –> 00:41:05] when you’re thinking about holy things and beautiful things
[00:41:05 –> 00:41:07] and you’re meditating on a scripture passage,
[00:41:07 –> 00:41:09] I think meditating on our Lady,
[00:41:09 –> 00:41:13] like, the beauty of your imagination is at the service
[00:41:13 –> 00:41:15] of communion.
[00:41:15 –> 00:41:19] But at some point, the imagination ushers in this communion
[00:41:19 –> 00:41:21] and then it’s no longer needed.
[00:41:22 –> 00:41:25] We don’t have to, like, grasp onto it.
[00:41:25 –> 00:41:28] And sometimes we get stuck in our imagination.
[00:41:28 –> 00:41:33] And if it makes sense, I often say this to seminarians,
[00:41:33 –> 00:41:37] like, “Don’t get stuck in the story of your imagination.”
[00:41:37 –> 00:41:40] Like, the imagination’s at the service of intimacy.
[00:41:40 –> 00:41:44] So when I see our Lady’s face, when I see Jesus’ face,
[00:41:44 –> 00:41:47] the imagination has provided me
[00:41:47 –> 00:41:52] with this sacred image of the face and the gaze of Jesus.
[00:41:52 –> 00:41:54] I don’t want to stay there
[00:41:54 –> 00:41:58] because it’s showing me what’s real
[00:41:58 –> 00:42:00] through my sense imagery.
[00:42:00 –> 00:42:03] But now, because of the grace of God,
[00:42:03 –> 00:42:08] I can give myself to a real person who’s looking back at me.
[00:42:08 –> 00:42:12] And so therefore, the imagination ushers in intimacy
[00:42:12 –> 00:42:14] and I can, the saints, especially the Carmelites,
[00:42:14 –> 00:42:17] talk about leaving the imagination behind
[00:42:18 –> 00:42:21] when it’s done at service.
[00:42:21 –> 00:42:23] Because now, I’m with God.
[00:42:25 –> 00:42:27] I hope that makes sense, right?
[00:42:27 –> 00:42:28] Like, it’s at the service.
[00:42:28 –> 00:42:30] And so therefore, I don’t need to hold onto it
[00:42:30 –> 00:42:34] or take up residence in my imagination.
[00:42:34 –> 00:42:37] It’s supposed to kind of catapult me
[00:42:37 –> 00:42:38] into the presence of God
[00:42:38 –> 00:42:41] and where I can be held in a different way.
[00:42:41 –> 00:42:43] It’s such a gift, so beautiful,
[00:42:43 –> 00:42:47] but it’s only at the service of intimacy.
[00:42:47 –> 00:42:48] It’s not supposed to be,
[00:42:48 –> 00:42:52] it’s a means, not like the end of prayer.
[00:42:52 –> 00:42:54] I feel pretty deep about that.
[00:42:55 –> 00:42:56] Because sometimes I think we get stuck
[00:42:56 –> 00:42:58] because it makes me feel good,
[00:42:58 –> 00:43:01] but we’re just watching movies of the gospel in our mind,
[00:43:01 –> 00:43:06] which is not prayer like God wants.
[00:43:06 –> 00:43:09] It’s a gift of prayer and it’s a fuel for prayer,
[00:43:09 –> 00:43:11] but it’s supposed to take us into communion.
[00:43:13 –> 00:43:15] I hope that makes sense.
[00:43:15 –> 00:43:16] Nice one.
[00:43:18 –> 00:43:23] And so, and I don’t think this undercuts
[00:43:24 –> 00:43:25] what you said at all, but like,
[00:43:25 –> 00:43:26] ’cause I remember back,
[00:43:26 –> 00:43:28] I think it is a postulant or a postulant director talked
[00:43:28 –> 00:43:33] about how, like, the rosary is like a great form of prayer
[00:43:34 –> 00:43:39] to rehabilitate the imagination and reorder the imagination.
[00:43:39 –> 00:43:44] And again, the beautiful images and pious sort of,
[00:43:45 –> 00:43:48] like, whatever experiences are part
[00:43:48 –> 00:43:49] of the instrument of prayer,
[00:43:49 –> 00:43:51] but I understand also how they’re not the end
[00:43:51 –> 00:43:53] like Communion is, seeing God himself.
[00:43:55 –> 00:43:56] But I think these are, and this is like,
[00:43:56 –> 00:43:59] this was part of the, again, the worldview behind,
[00:43:59 –> 00:44:03] like, there’s a whole, a pretty extended art section
[00:44:03 –> 00:44:05] for the Rosary in a Year journey.
[00:44:05 –> 00:44:08] And part of it was giving us some, like, pious, holy,
[00:44:08 –> 00:44:12] beautiful images for the, like, in the memory,
[00:44:12 –> 00:44:13] for the imagination, access and prayer
[00:44:13 –> 00:44:16] to bring us into communion with the Lord.
[00:44:16 –> 00:44:17] And so these are some of the things
[00:44:17 –> 00:44:18] that we’re talking about using our imagination.
[00:44:18 –> 00:44:22] And just, again, to kind of explore the good things
[00:44:22 –> 00:44:24] of God in reality.
[00:44:24 –> 00:44:28] Some of what we’re trying to temper
[00:44:28 –> 00:44:31] and even to sort of, like, maybe reign in
[00:44:31 –> 00:44:35] or extinguish would be things like fantasies,
[00:44:35 –> 00:44:38] things like rumination.
[00:44:38 –> 00:44:42] What would be another, jut like-
[00:44:42 –> 00:44:43] I think you like daydreaming.
[00:44:43 –> 00:44:44] Daydreaming is a- – Like it.
[00:44:44 –> 00:44:45] Yeah. – Yeah.
[00:44:45 –> 00:44:48] Where imagination can rob us from the daily,
[00:44:48 –> 00:44:49] the present moment.
[00:44:50 –> 00:44:53] Yeah. Great.
[00:44:53 –> 00:44:54] Cool.
[00:44:54 –> 00:44:55] Anything else?
[00:44:55 –> 00:44:56] Nope.
[00:44:56 –> 00:44:57] I mean, there’s a lot going on there.
[00:44:57 –> 00:44:58] We’re limited time-wise,
[00:44:58 –> 00:45:00] but I hope just to bless people,
[00:45:00 –> 00:45:03] the imagination is a gift, especially for prayer,
[00:45:03 –> 00:45:05] but it’s at the service of intimacy.
[00:45:05 –> 00:45:05] And what’s the name of the book?
[00:45:05 –> 00:45:07] And true and beautiful.
[00:45:07 –> 00:45:11] The book we are going through is called “Holy Silence”
[00:45:11 –> 00:45:12] by Fr. Basil Nortz.
[00:45:14 –> 00:45:14] Great.
[00:45:15 –> 00:45:18] All right, do you wanna pray for us, Fr. Angelus?
[00:45:18 –> 00:45:19] Sure.
[00:45:19 –> 00:45:20] In the name of the Father, and the Son,
[00:45:20 –> 00:45:22] and the Holy Spirit, Amen.
[00:45:23 –> 00:45:26] Father in heaven, we give you great thanks and praise
[00:45:26 –> 00:45:30] for the gift of silence, for the gift of our humanity,
[00:45:30 –> 00:45:33] for the gift of our senses and our imagination.
[00:45:33 –> 00:45:35] We pray for a particular grace right now, Lord,
[00:45:35 –> 00:45:38] for just an anointing upon our imagination.
[00:45:39 –> 00:45:41] A great confidence, a great purification
[00:45:41 –> 00:45:45] that it can be used for deeper intimacy and communion,
[00:45:45 –> 00:45:48] ordering to you and to love around us.
[00:45:49 –> 00:45:51] Set us free, Lord, from any parts of our imagination
[00:45:51 –> 00:45:53] that are not ordered to you
[00:45:53 –> 00:45:56] or any parts of our imagination that distract us
[00:45:56 –> 00:45:59] or keep us separated from you.
[00:46:00 –> 00:46:02] Come and give us that grace this day.
[00:46:04 –> 00:46:07] We pray this all, Jesus, in your name. Amen.
[00:46:07 –> 00:46:09] The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.
[00:46:11 –> 00:46:13] Great. Thanks, everybody.
[00:46:13 –> 00:46:14] We’ll see you again next week.
[00:46:14 –> 00:46:16] Peace, guys.
[00:46:16 –> 00:46:21] (vocalist singing in foreign language)