[00:00 –> 00:17] What’s up everybody? Father innocent here. And I just wanted to pause and say thank you for all who make Poco a Poco podcast possible with your prayers and your generosity. Every episode we share, every person reach. It’s because of you. If you feel moved to join our mission as a monthly supporter or increase your gift, we’d be so grateful. [00:17 –> 00:29] Your support helps us lead more souls to encounter Christ. Little by little. You can give that spirit to use.org or through the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of our mission. God bless you all. [00:29 –> 00:33] You’re listening to the Poco le Poco podcast, sponsored by Spirit Juice Studios. [00:33 –> 00:40] Poco. Our poco bombs are. You got so much pedigree. Nothing. You know that we are. We make our way. [00:40 –> 01:07] Him for the mark. Marry him for the. Hey, everybody and father innocence and. Well. Hello, everyone. I am Father Angelus. Fanfare for. Welcome back. Yeah. This is nice, guys. It’s been to record full recordings without you. Yeah, I think so. That’s a long time, bro. That’s a long time. It feels good to be back with you guys. I don’t know what your experience is, but it’s good to see you. [01:07 –> 01:24] Are you. Are you sick by chance? I’m a little sick, so. But that’s okay. Nothing’s going to stop me. You know. Can’t stop, won’t stop. Last time you were in the air for, like, the whole episode, which is. Or like four episodes, which is crazy, like four weeks because you were traveling somewhere. I forget where we kept saying you were still. [01:24 –> 01:37] Still on. And we’re trying to schedule together these days, which is kind of nice just to make sure I’m in on the scheduling conversation. So thank you for okay. We’ve always tried to do that. [01:37 –> 02:01] But I mean, certainly all of us are phenomenal schedulers. Oh go ahead. We also have to say I guess I have something I have something to say to you, Father Angelus, that I’m getting. I’ve been getting email after email after email about, just so you know, I need somebody on that. Okay. And just so you know, just so you know, I replied to emails this morning. [02:01 –> 02:19] Can you help me reach Our Lady of the Angels in Saint Joseph’s, our lady of the angels? I’ve left several messages. We do need to put people on those things, father. Sometimes you’re like, get a deep brother. You’re like, hey, can you just take care of this for me? That’s what I was going to ask you, which is what I did, which is what I did. [02:19 –> 02:36] But also anyway, you know, have that this conversation. No, I mean, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I wasn’t going to bring it up, except that it seems that naturally, that’s one of. That’s great. So let’s let’s celebrate some successes. Let’s do that. Would that be all right? Yeah. Come on, let’s do it. All right. So I’m. [02:36 –> 02:55] I’m a, father. Less since since the last time we recorded, we had our our what we now call leadership meetings. Father innocent. I think you rocked it. I think. Hey. Yeah. Thank you. I’m just happy it’s over. We’re trying to. We got some small victories. I recently inherited this awesome meeting of the brothers getting together every year. [02:55 –> 03:18] The leaders, like internationally, the brothers gather so everybody was. Everybody on the screen was earlier on this podcast was there with my friends. It’s helpful because it’s just nice to have you guys as support and being able to hang out with, but it was great. It was blessed for the guys to come together and we did some some great things to help guys grow and some leadership and give guys space for to hang out and just be together. [03:18 –> 03:21] So it was awesome. [03:21 –> 03:43] I would say I have like my experience of it, which I think is the best sort of testament to it is I’ve like, I brought I have like I have too much to bring back to the guys in the sense of like, there has to be like, I have a lot to bring. And so there kind of has to be like a slow roll out, which I think is like a really good sign. [03:43 –> 04:05] So kind of sharing some that piece by piece. And again, my, my situation’s unique because I only have finally Professor Fryer. So in a sense it’s kind of all for them as well. Yeah. I’m, I mean, you’re, you’re just really supportive and good. So I hope yeah. General generally I hope guys just felt blessed and supported and we just it’s not easy being a leader or a local servant or for mater. [04:05 –> 04:22] So we just want guys to feel support and kind of yeah, get some tools to, to help kind of live their mission. So it’s awesome. Yeah. I’m happy was, a success because I know there’s a lot of work for you fall and and so that went into it the planning, the trying to match desires of the brothers who come. [04:22 –> 04:40] Yeah. And also to being caught in the middle with sometimes leadership, other leadership want certain things, you know, like, well, I don’t swear. So it’s just just good. Yeah. So I’m happy that it was good. Yeah. I kind of have I have a job. I kind of forgot what happened there, what we do. So come on. It’s typical. [04:40 –> 05:11] Yeah. It’s it’s hard to it’s hard to get victories in those situations. I think we have a generational a need for generational, you know, families have generational bondage. I think our community has generational bondage of bad attitudes about meetings. And so it’s like in, in our in our DNA as a community. So when we try to like, learn and grow and try to be productive as a community, to help guys be formed in leadership or formation or whatever it may be, it just kind of funny because they’re like, hey, let’s, let’s try something different. [05:11 –> 05:28] And so it’s been changing over the last couple years, but this is really a blessing. And I think guys can learn, hey, meetings aren’t all bad if we if we can come together with openness and good, good attitude. So that’s awesome. You heard they father more openness and good attitude bro. I’m the face of openness and good attitude. [05:28 –> 05:41] Yeah, bro. Your face. You look like you’re really close to the screen right now. You got something to say? What’s on? You always make me nervous. You always make me nervous. Because sometimes I’m. I realize that if anybody is having technical difficulties, it’s me into a new meaning like that of my. Can he hear me right now? Am I like, working? [05:41 –> 06:06] Is this okay? So anyway, you make me nervous being just, you know, the lean in is not to hear you better. It’s to get closer to the microphone. My the headphones work from a variety of distances equally. Glad we can sort of establish that. Just so you know, when you’re doing virtual meetings with like a spiritual direction or story where and you’re like listening to people, the lean in is, oh, man, I’m totally with you. [06:06 –> 06:16] And I really want to receive what’s happening right now. So I just know that that’s not there’s not much of that in you. So I just don’t really know. [06:16 –> 06:33] That was a joke, everyone. It was a good joke. That was a joke. Just so you know, if I’m doing anything serious on the video, I have a a different set up. I this is my casual. We’re not being recorded set up. They’re back to the meeting saying, hey, we all got it. We all know this. We got to establish it. [06:33 –> 06:51] There’s a cost. The bad meetings, you know, like we don’t run like a business where there’s like a, you know, we all are there with our salaries and it’s a, you know, it’s like cost the the company money. But if it’s like if we’re just wasting people, I mean, there’s, you know, in one sense there’s no such thing as a waste of time. [06:51 –> 07:09] But, you know, if it’s the best use of somebody’s time, especially people who have a lot going on, they get less and less, you know, optimistic that the next meeting is going to be, you know, the right thing to do. So. But I felt like we thought this was, a major win, major step in the right direction. [07:09 –> 07:28] Thanks for saying that, bro. I hope, I hope so, I hope so, so just trying to think the big win for you guys as the for the council overall, just you guys kind of like kind of like you guys go pretty hard. Those that are like forever. But like that week is even an added sprint, right? Yeah. [07:28 –> 07:47] There’s a lot going on there. Yeah. There’s it just feels like one slog of a meeting with like various people and lunches become meetings and side conversations become meetings. And you’re in the meetings with the meetings. And so, yeah, we had a nice dinner one night all together. Right? Just for fun. Oh, that was fun. Those kinds of victory, too. [07:47 –> 08:23] We got kind of our little friend group together, a friend friars together. And I was like, yeah, yeah, right away. That was fun, right? Oh, that was so much fun. Now you’re killing me. Yeah. And I appreciate, like, the, Or if this makes sense, but the meeting times are for me. Not just about the meeting specifically, like the servants in leadership stuff, but it’s like an opportunity for us to be together to, like, hang out, to be brothers and away from that stuff that facilitates that, where it’s funny, like, if we’re not working together, we’re not going to see each other right. [08:23 –> 08:53] And so yeah, so I was grateful for that, just to be able to hang out with friends in times that weren’t structured meeting times. And so yeah, that’s awesome. You know, my contribution. Thank you for your contribution. And second thing is for, maybe just a more my guys than everybody. But anyway for us is we, you know, since the last time we recorded, we have now celebrated the 100th anniversary of the transit as the passing of Saint Francis and the feast day. [08:53 –> 09:10] And we did so with a. So Catholic underground is the big event that we we hosted at Our Lady of Good Council in Manhattan. And it’s it’s like it’s yeah, it’s a really awesome event. And we kind of we worked the transits into it and for, for my guys which were running it especially, there’s like an art show afterwards. [09:10 –> 09:30] It was just like there was a lot, a lot a lot of preparation. I don’t know if you guys saw that, like the San Damiano replica. That was a huge undertaking. But the guys, like, totally owned it and rocked it. And the there’s a great turnout and great support from the brothers, like a big crew who went there. [09:30 –> 09:52] And it’s always cool to kind of be up there, like with all the, you know, the confessors and it’s all here, all the guys in gray. It’s kind of a cool thing to be part of. So it’s like a big win for everybody. Yeah. I mean, it seems I, I wasn’t able to go to the Catholic underground, but I saw the, the, I mean, I talked to Brother Francois, see all his artwork, see all the celebration things. [09:52 –> 10:09] And it just seemed that was huge for you guys. Like, we set out to pull some of this stuff off for the big 800th year, and it just seemed like it was. Yeah, it was super powerful for guys. And see, the brothers see brothers in their element, I think is really important. And so to see guys be celebrated like that was awesome. [10:09 –> 10:25] Yeah, it’s it’s always for me. I think for me it’s like a team victory. Know I mean like you guys work hard behind the scenes and did everything, especially I didn’t realize how much work Brother Francois I did because I think with some of the pictures from Brother Michael Francis, I keep mad at them. He frame them. He he did all that stuff. [10:25 –> 10:44] Right. And so like, there’s a lot of, like little things like that where because of his hard work, because of setting stuff up, we’re able just to kind of plug in and like as a team, like have this victory of, hey, it was a good event. And so shout out to Brother Francois and his hard work because I know he’s listening to us right now, but but yeah, I’m just grateful for him because anyway, I just saw him a couple times. [10:44 –> 11:02] He. Yeah. And he’s good. And so shout out to him for his hard work. But yeah, it was an awesome event. I was grateful I had a sense the other night when we were there that, we usually do the event in the Bronx. Right. And, we have a smaller church over there, and people certainly come, but it was like this gift of. [11:02 –> 11:18] And maybe that’s what the 800 the year is. It’s like this gift of sharing Saint Francis and sharing our own, desire for the Franciscan life with with a broader group of people. So I think that was just awesome. It was a great gift and a victory for people to be like something. Yeah, it made it even seem like someone. [11:18 –> 11:36] Some of the people showed up and they were like, maybe forgot about it or like, what can we expect in regular kind of going underground? And then they get the transit. And so I just think that that could have blessed more people and just the reach there. In the midst of the graces that Francis wants to give people in the midst of this year, just really beautiful to see. [11:36 –> 11:50] And I’ve been in Catholic underground in a while. So it was great to hear confessions and to be there. So ditto. Same thing I’ve to cats going around a while. It’s great to hear confessions and just support Brother Priest out there, you know, just, just doing God’s work. [11:51 –> 12:09] You guys, are you guys usually. Oh, because you guys are a couple. You’re far away from Catholic Honor. I mean, I would say it’s not a distance. I’m a father, listeners, but it’s not a distance thing for me. What, do you want me far away? I’m just saying I will, but I know and I can, you know, I can get behind that. [12:09 –> 12:30] Because before you were far away, I always, I always knew I’d see you there. I always said, hey, save this confessional. That’s for Father Innocent. He’s always here. Oh, gosh. We should we should move on. You guys kept trying to come. I said, no, father innocent. He’ll be here. He promised. He promised a bride. He’s my friend. [12:30 –> 12:47] As soon as I said that. Definitely your friend as I. Soon as I said that, father Mark. Mary leaned in with a smirk on his face. I’m like, oh, here we go. This is guys that that’s not the attentive, affirming. I’m listening. And it’s I’m going to get you lean. Exactly right. I think that’s your own conscience is coming out in some sort of insecurity. [12:47 –> 13:01] You know, I don’t know. Yeah. There may be some, like, something there on my conscience, but also to what your face is saying and your body is saying, I can affirm I mean, it it was a gift to be there. That’s that was my whole point. It was a real gift to be there. It was a gift. [13:01 –> 13:17] It was a gift to be. Hey, I did laugh when father, brother, friend. So I got up there at the end to ask for money. Remember those days when I kind of got up there and you were great? I was the money guy. You were you. There’s never been, You are peak. [13:17 –> 13:37] It’s true. That means a lot to me, bro. You’re charming, you know, you get up there, winsome father Angelus. It’s winsome. I think we established that. That was a dinner conversation last night. You use the word winsome. I also like when was it father innocent or father angels or both of you got replaced downstairs with Father Pete because you guys weren’t cool enough. [13:37 –> 13:55] I’m definitely not cool. I’m definitely not cool. No. And here we are. I feel like we spoke about this before. That was I. I don’t know if I go back and do it again. Catholic underground. But just like having everybody together do it, it was definitely a a thing and it was good. And I think we were all good at our respective jobs, you know. [13:55 –> 14:02] Yeah. What would you say downstairs Catholic underground, New York. What’s going on? [14:02 –> 14:21] Make some noise. You said you feel like you had your hat on. You got up there. Make it happen. Yeah, yeah, I remember I said something. Anyway, I don’t remember what I said, but I said it. I said something in a funny way. And you guys roasted me for it. I was like, come out for this next thing. [14:21 –> 14:37] Like it was maybe a female performer. And I meant to say, like, it’s going to be hot or it’s gonna be like, cool, but I think I said she’s hot. Yeah, yeah. He looked at me. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, it’s going to be cool. It’s going to be hot. So come out. So yeah. Oh good time. [14:37 –> 14:59] So you can have an edit button sometimes like edit I push it right now. No. All right. So speaking of Saint Francis. Yeah. We were we’re a little like we’re we’re a little behind. This is something that maybe we probably should have done like last month, but now we’re actually at the feast. And then anyway, when we’re recording this. [14:59 –> 15:23] So we’re getting some some fake Saint Francis stuff. We’ll do one episode today, which is kind of a brief discussion on, kind of when you hear Francis talk about what God has called him to do, he’s he’s uses this language of, like, to do penance or, so we’ll talk about that. And then there’s a tradition of having a Dominican preach for the feast, Saint Francis. [15:23 –> 15:47] So our next episode, we’ll have Father Jonah Tyler join us. And then the last two will be, some stuff on Saint Francis and Prayer and the spiritual life, which, will be led by for innocent for the Angeles. But if I’m going to kick this off with like love’s reply because the the idea to do this something an episode on this book or episodes on this book came from Father Innocent and kind of came something that happened deep in your own heart. [15:47 –> 16:07] Can you going to share, like your own sort of experience with reading the book and kind of what got you fired up about it? Yeah, for sure. And I feel like I don’t have a lot of original things to say. But I feel like, I mean, the book’s called Love’s Reply, and it really talks about kind of Francis’s heart and especially, yeah. [16:07 –> 16:37] And in, in a lot of different aspects. Right. But it talks about, this Francis Hughes relationship, with kind of, yeah, penance and poverty. And I think what’s really, just really, really important is that that the book does such a great job and, and really kind of just simplifying, this, this journey of conversion renewal, but also this, this just longing for the intimacy that Francis had and that we all that we all deeply have. [16:37 –> 16:58] And when I read this book, I just felt the fire, Francis’s longing. And I felt like for just so a real concrete in a real concrete way, it laid out the path of the cost of intimacy. Francis was a lover and and it and to be a lover of God in this world and on this side of heaven, with feast, with all of our brokenness and weakness. [16:58 –> 17:17] Francis was willing to give up everything, to give up himself, to do battle with himself, to deny himself. Because he wanted to experience the love of the living God, and he just didn’t want to experience it once. He didn’t want to. He didn’t want it just to be the love of the love of Jesus, to be an abstract idea. [17:17 –> 17:55] But he he wanted to be aflame and burning with the love of God. And he realized the cost of this. And this book really like lit a fire in my heart, because the cost and it really talks about the, the what it means to be emptied himself, to do penance, to live kind of this radical. I call it poverty because it’s the self-emptying, so that we can so that we can really be purified and converted so that we can really kind of, I mean, father John is going to father John is going to talk to, talk about this next episode, but that we can be filled with the light of God, [17:55 –> 18:16] and we can and we can really, like, hold him in our person and really give him away to others. There was very little of Francis left as he got as he, like, radically gave his life to Jesus. He he was emptied and he let go of himself, and he and and he just I just yeah, I feel deeply about that because it’s the gospel. [18:16 –> 18:33] It’s actually what the gospel calls us to. And so, yeah, I don’t want to I don’t think I need to say too much more. But for Francis, like he went all in, he realized the cost of holiness, and he and intimacy. And he kind of went all in for that. Now there’s an intensity to it, and I don’t want to. [18:33 –> 18:57] I don’t want to, like, throw a softball here, but but what what does it look like for all of us? I everyone’s different and every call of life and vocation is different. But there’s still this call, to give up everything and follow Jesus. To empty ourselves so we can be filled with Jesus. And, I just think it could be a beautiful invitation for everybody to say yes in their own way to what that looks like. [18:58 –> 19:16] And if I if I can jump in and then we can send it back around the horn again is. So this is it’s, catching Esther father catching a certain who’s the other author? Is it Armstrong? No, I forgot, I have the book. Let me. I just thought it was. Yeah. Sweet. You think it’s just Esther? I think it might be. [19:16 –> 19:46] Or at least on my book. It’s just Esther. But I thought so. Translator. But what do you got? Engelbert. Grow. So catch Esther. Engelbert. GRA. You. Both of them. So this is how the like the authors of the book describe, Francis and so. And because, like so there’s this there’s, kind of the two I could two initial texts or primary texts are the rule Saint Francis. [19:46 –> 20:05] And then there’s something that is called the Testament, which is kind of like, I don’t know, his last at last testament is kind of like, almost like a technical term, kind of his last few, like, words to, to the brothers. Right. It’s essentially like closing thoughts. What did you guys describe in some way different, or is that sound okay? [20:05 –> 20:30] This sounds right. And he kind of has a brief, sort of almost like autobiography testimony in it. And he said, and the Lord gave me what’s the language the Lord gave me of the Lord called me to do penance. Right. So this is kind of like the this is the language that Saint Francis use to kind to, to describe the first like sort of movement or invitation of grace. [20:30 –> 20:55] And, and this is how the, the authors describe it, Francis fulfilled his happy duty of returning thanks for the marvels and wonders of God’s love, not only by His word, but even more by his whole life. His life of penance is the total and unreserved answer of a heart full of gratitude for all that God has bestowed upon us in and through us. [20:55 –> 21:19] And so the first thing is kind of define the terms, realizing that, penance for Francis isn’t it’s much broader of a term or a vision than, like the penance we generally talk about, of essentially like giving something up, or doing something like an, a practice of austerity or some sort of discipline. So it’s, it’s much it’s much bigger in this for, for, for Francis. [21:19 –> 21:49] And as described by these authors, it’s this, this total, this total total return of thanks to God for his goodness. I love this. A total and unreserved answer of a heart full of gratitude for all that God has bestowed upon us. Like the the the movement. The movement is won first and foremost of of gratitude of this I have received all and so I like I return all and so it’s not. [21:49 –> 22:22] It’s not like I am bad, I must die, I must be beat up. I must be destroyed. Like that’s not it. What? It is, it is. It is this full and total return to him in a spirit of gratitude. Because of everything that that he has given us. And all of the. If you will, the privations and the self-denial and the sacrifice and the all of that sort of stuff is going to be motivated by and part of this, this vision, it’s fueled by it, motivated by it. [22:22 –> 22:59] But it’s but it’s first and foremost like this. What’s called love’s reply, like a response of love to love, a response of gratitude to the one who’s given all. So what do you guys think about that? I like it nice. Thank you. I’ll say something else. So the cool thing about the testament and just grounding us there, in particular with Francis, is that his last testament is it has like these these overtures and these rings from, the high priesthood prior John 17. [22:59 –> 23:29] And that’s when Jesus’s is praying to the father and like basically thanking the father for what he’s given him. And one point in time, excuse me. Jesus. Thanks to father for, yeah, for the gift to the apostles and all these different things. And so, Francis, his heart being, excuse me, imbued with Scripture and being in a place of of desiring to to do nothing more than please a father or to give his heart and life over to the father. [23:29 –> 23:50] Francis, if you will, steps into this role of of Jesus and thanks to father, and gives everything back to the father, and realizes that everything has been to receive received as a gift. And so a line which Father Martin was talking about in particular is like an the Lord gave me brothers, and Lord gave me. I forgot what it’s like is is specifically like the opportunity to do this life of penance. [23:50 –> 24:17] The Lord gave me faith in priest, Lord, give me faith in churches. And so specifically as as we were noting that his heart cannot be, other other moved then just to give everything back to God, to realize that it has been a gift from God, and he desires to stay in this place of total self offering much as Jesus did, much as Jesus desire to stand as an offering back to to the father because the truth is with love, the only reply to love is love. [24:17 –> 24:36] To give everything and to to allow my heart to be steeped in the fact that I’m seeing and I’m known and I’m love. But even more so, I desire to give all. I think for us in particular, it’s just a moving thing. And I was thinking about this too, where the Saints, and in particular for for me, Saint Francis is like this, this model of like, that’s how it’s done. [24:36 –> 24:56] And then that’s not the perfection because he’s still the man. He’s still, fallen in some way, shape or form. But but he’s achieved like a very high end. And will it look the same for me? No. But are there things that I can learn from him? Learn from his example? And even now ask him for his intercession, specifically as he stands on, on that side of heaven? [24:57 –> 25:26] And the answer is yes. I think in particular, just the way in which he desire to give everything to the father, to the Holy Trinity in particular. It is very telling. And is there a space for me to do the same thing? Is there a space for me to allow the Lord to speak to my heart, to recognize, to have eyes, to recognize that everything that I have is a gift from him, and even the things that I don’t necessarily like or enjoy could potentially be a way of of stepping into this thanksgiving of God giving me an opportunity to to recognize who I am in that space. [25:26 –> 25:40] I see something that’s challenging, and it could be penitential in this space, but but even more so, I think it’s the allowing yourself to be conquered by love and to give yourself freely, from the space and the quote unquote penance can be just that difficult moving of heart, just to allow yourself to be seen in that space. [25:40 –> 26:04] And so so that just some comments and thoughts about it. Yeah. Thanks, bro. It’s it’s an exciting time for the passions. We obviously this is the beginning part of the year end. Just he does teaching a lot, throwing a lot out. And we started our Saint Francis class the other day. And so in so many ways, we we talked about this in just a, a couple things I reminded of them. [26:04 –> 26:23] It’s fun when guys are, new and open and you start to, to propose kind of simple things about the life of Francis or the man of Francis. And, and they just they’re just lit on fire. Right. And so we were talking about conversion in his pen in Life of Penance and, this way I think it fits in this conversation very well, like the reality of conversion. [26:24 –> 26:48] I think I’ve said this many, many times on the podcast, but the Catechism defines conversion as the radical reorientation of our lives back to God. And so just this, this experience in this, the the orientation of our hearts, the orientation of our thoughts, the orientation of our longing, like in Francis, this, this orientation happened in him, that it just allowed, like, for things to quickly happen in his life. [26:48 –> 27:10] The conversion to go quick, the healing to go quick, the the the movement of intimacy with God in faith, in generosity, in the way he started to live, which just happened instantly because there was just such a zone in this desire to orient everything back to God and to have everything, like you said, Father Murphy, to be a reply to this abundant gift that was given to him. [27:10 –> 27:28] God in so many ways was was radical in the gift. And then Francis couldn’t help but say, okay, like I have to every this, this demands everything from me, which in so many ways can be difficult sometimes because I think in the in the world today we are. I’ll speak for myself. My reply often is calculated. [27:29 –> 27:51] Or safe or comfortable, in whatever that can mean. And maybe, maybe just add this in there as well, and maybe I, I don’t know if I’ve said this on, on our, in our time together on the podcast, but in so many ways, because of Francis like encounter with Jesus or, and even particularly encounter with the leper in the pre conversion life of Saint Francis was one where he was the center. [27:51 –> 28:17] His ego, everything, that life being the life of the party, his self reliance in so many ways was this ascent, this being most important, this being in the center of attention. And so you have this ascending that that was the orientation of Francis’s life. And then in the midst of his conversion, he sees Jesus, who only descends in the incarnation or only descends into poverty or only descends into humanity, and then Francis his whole life. [28:17 –> 28:56] So this orientation is almost a orientation to descending, to becoming poor, to becoming small, to becoming little, to becoming, one with Jesus who emptied himself. Right. And so they it almost feels like the flavor of the of the reply is also is very penitential and that can be difficult. But it the flavor certainly one that is repents or turns from this self-importance being the center of everything, being control, everything performing, being perfect, and is an invitation to be conformed to the Lord, which is descent into littleness, poverty need. [28:56 –> 29:16] Yeah, the mass, if you will, the mass of life. And then the Lord in some way, through the gift of of how the Trinity dwells inside of us, transforms things from there. What you think just is super powerful. You’re like, man, Francis was a man of ascent. How to conversion. And then quickly descended, to be one with Jesus, which is just powerful to think about. [29:16 –> 29:43] Yeah. I mean, thanks, engine. And the only thing I would add to what everybody’s saying, which is, is moving to me and is how for Francis, every I mean, this is obvious, but but everything is relational. And so for he’s like there. Yeah. Because everything is a response to the father’s like constant pursuit of, of like of his heart for us of a good father who just constantly loving us and pouring everything out. [29:43 –> 30:06] And so I love just that orientation, that everything is relational. So we talk about like, what Francis sets out to do by living the Holy gospel, or he sets out to do in penance and poverty. It’s not about some sort of spiritual Olympics, but it’s always relational. And so I love father Mark, where you started off with that quote that sets the orientation for everything because it talks about like, what it really means to be sons and daughters. [30:06 –> 30:30] We we were we’re always in relationship. And that’s the vision that we need to see Francis through. Or he doesn’t make sense. And so I just love that it’s all it’s all about relationship. And so therefore he can do hard things because it’s always the, the the offer, the sacrifice back to the father because the father’s so real in his life. [30:30 –> 30:55] And just to. Sorry. Follow my Mary. Now, you can hop in there. Either that or you’re going to listen intently to what I say, but I imagine it’s going to be to say something like, just briefly, just a follow up on that. It’s it just makes sense where it could be looked at. Saint Francis slept, use the rock for his pillow, slept in caves, you know, and like all he did, all these hard things. [30:55 –> 31:16] And I imagine if you. I got Francis in a room and asked, like, why he’s like this. That’s what you do when you’re in love, you know, in the sense of imagine and just placing it in like in our own context, in the sense of like a man who’s in love, like he’s going to do difficult things for, you know, his, his, his wife or the one he’s pursuing or like, a father just does difficult things. [31:17 –> 31:41] What looks like a difficult thing from outside looking in. But like, his heart is moved for the other, mother. The same thing to, you know. And so it is something just beautiful to to step in, in relationship to say that it’s not just to do this for to doing it sake or because I want to show my ascent into these, these places, but more so because, you know, this is what a man in love does, is what somebody who is totally taken over by another would do. [31:41 –> 32:04] And and this is how I just. Yeah, the Lord has called me, you know, and he’s he’s giving me this life of penance and he gave this to me. So to there, follow my Mary, please. Thank you. And I think yeah, that’s that’s great. And because it’s, what we see with Francis is, and this is part of the simplicity of it all is it’s all well, because Jesus, you know, and like for him. [32:04 –> 32:27] Right. Like love, love has a proper name and it’s Jesus. Like, why this? Well, because Jesus, you know, why do penance? Because of Jesus. Why have such faith in churches? Because of Jesus? Why honor and Revere the priest? Well, because of Jesus. Why? You know, be so sort of, almost obsessed with gods of the of like, sacred Scripture because Jesus, why this this profound love of the Most Holy Eucharist? [32:27 –> 32:46] Because Jesus, you know. And so it’s just like it’s like it’s I could almost see it being something he just said, like countless times of the brothers and being like, okay, like I’m not going to ask anymore because, like, I get it, you know, I get the answer. And I’m just going to read a couple of things here because I think this is like, it’s it’s a really I think it’s really foundational, important. [32:46 –> 33:07] And so this is just another, some, some more stuff on Francis from Love’s Reply only the man and Love’s reply. I don’t think it’s out. It’s in print. So if you guys hear this, you want to search it? My bad. You. If you become a Franciscan father and you can have access to it, which is not a totally great reason to discern. [33:07 –> 33:29] Okay, only the man who gives Christ full place in his life can walk this way to the end, to the father who is our goal, the way Francis chose in all fidelity and simplicity. Be that way. French chosen all fidelity and simplicity, because it is the surest way to the heart of God. This idea that it’s like it’s all about getting back to father and the font of Christ, and the imitation of Christ. [33:29 –> 33:54] Earthly life Francis did not seek. And this is awesome. He did not seek primarily his own perfection or his personal sanctification. It wasn’t. It was like it wasn’t self-centered, even if it was like towards his own significant. But he sought the father who dwells in light, inaccessible, and his true and holy love. His life of penance in the Imitation of Christ is a simply and plainly his return to the father. [33:54 –> 34:23] For Francis, this life thus meant above all to follow in his footsteps, since Christ is the way, the only way to the father. Like I just love this. Like it’s this like the sun comes from the father, right? And now and then he returns to the father, and Jesus comes to bring all of us to the father. And this, this idea that, like it is in Jesus, through Jesus to the like, it’s just, this is what we’re doing, you know, and again, and a byproduct of it will be personal sanctification. [34:23 –> 34:44] But that’s not the like that’s not the motivation. The motivation is to return to the father, and Jesus is the way to the father. And so there’s this every like I’m eyes on him, like ears open to him, clinging to him, residing in him, abiding with him. Because this is the way to the point of like literally trying to follow in his footsteps. [34:44 –> 35:06] Right. And so we see so much of the life of Francis, his poverty, because like Jesus became for his this because Jesus did this, that, that because Jesus did this. Why is this, this love’s reply to the father? Is this reply back to the father? Yeah, father. And and, yeah, I’m just like, just moved by all of this and, and I think the, the, [35:07 –> 35:31] Yeah. I mean, I don’t want to be dramatic, but, Yeah, the pain that I carry and my own weakness and my own desire for the world insane is that I sometimes I, I just can’t see. Right. Like, sometimes in my blindness, my my desire for the world. Like, I fail to see that everything’s a gift. Francis and even more and and perfectly. [35:31 –> 35:53] Jesus just had this vision for the father. Everything was gift. And, you know, father, you see me. You always see me writing. He lived in such like communion and connection. He saw everything from that, from the father. The heavens were opened always for Francis and Jesus and and I just don’t see how often I’m distracted. How often. [35:53 –> 36:16] Yeah. I’m. I just have such small vision, a small heart and so, and so maybe the invitation for me first, but for, for everyone listening is like, do I have a eyes to see and a heart that’s open that I’m like, wow. Like I don’t come for myself. Everything is gift to every breath you take to the job you have to the family you have like nothing is yours. [36:16 –> 36:41] And so then the invitation is, could I, could I receive a new grace, through the intercession of Francis, just to see and experience life differently, that everything is a gift from the father who loves me and is pursuing me and nurturing me and providing for me at every moment. And then it invites a different reply. Not just me kind of living my life and giving God time when I can, or going to mass on Sundays. [36:41 –> 37:01] But can I live a different reply where my heart is filled with gratitude and praise and adoration? Because God is worthy of that. Because he is so good, right? So I, I love and I love this because it’s challenging. It’s challenging to see and experience the world in a deep way, like Francis, that that he just saw differently. [37:01 –> 37:23] He was his heart was overwhelmed differently. But I do think we have to bake for the eyes to see that everything is a gift instead of living kind of our compartmental lives or or distracted lives. And I, I call myself out first. But it’s a it’s a huge grace and it’s a huge call, to live like this. [37:23 –> 37:41] realize I’m on a different microphone something switch classic technology stuff for me. But brothers and father, that’s a great quote. And I was just reminded of the reality of, that book is is awesome. And I just want to encourage all of us take with that the reality of what it’s asking of us. [37:41 –> 38:01] Everybody’s proposing is this invitation to put all of our, like, self-involved, self-centered, like, I get this is how it has to do the spiritual life. This is how I have to pray. This is how I have to be a Christian. Like it feels like all the perfection and all the performance and all this stuff we feel like we have to do, like the self-made Christianity. [38:01 –> 38:22] It just kind of like tears all of that down. It just like takes us from all this stuff we need to do every day and all the checklist we need to do in prayer and what this looks like and what that looks like, and it just invites us back. And again, I think that’s what probably Saint Francis is, is like, it takes us back to, a simple following of Jesus. [38:22 –> 38:52] That feels really important in this day and age. To follow the Lord in this way. And just to add the, yeah, it’s it’s love’s reply, meaning that love is spoken first, like God has spoken first. And I think sometimes we can think that we have to come up with the things first. And so I guess just to ground us also to in our everyday, like how is how is the Lord speaking already to me? [38:52 –> 39:11] You know, just to follow an instance point of, begging for a new heart, new eyes. But but the Lord is already screaming at us like I love you, like I’m with you and I’m here. And so how do we recognize that in the day to day as opposed to trying to, yeah, invent, become self-starters as far as like this is the way it’s going to look at my spiritual life. [39:11 –> 39:28] I have to do everything like Saint Francis or like Saint So-and-so. But the Lord, my brothers, sisters in like a new everyday speaking something concrete of his love for you. And so it’s just taking time just to recognize that. And it could be by setting yourself up to, to see that, like through litany of Thanksgiving just for like what you have already. [39:28 –> 39:46] Just thank God for those things. Or maybe some sort of, yeah, just taking 5 to 10 minutes to recognize, like how your hearts move with joy about particular actions throughout the day, but to really recognize that it’s not us who love him, but it’s him who loves us first. And who has created us and to be wonderfully and fearfully made and and. [39:46 –> 40:02] Yeah. And just the father desires to invite us into this relationship much as invited friends, as much as he invites all the saints. Just to be his, to recognize his working, his doing in our lives. And we can totally be ones who are like Saint Francis in saying that I do this for love. I do this because I love him. [40:02 –> 40:11] I do this because, yeah, he’s giving me these gifts. And so just encourage us in that space. [40:11 –> 40:31] Anything that father and I said, sorry, I guess it’s back to me. Yeah. It’s back to you. Yeah, yeah, I’m. I’m just. Yeah, I know nothing. Can. This is working for me. This is speaking to me. Yeah. Like it and what I like. And unfortunately, I’m, like, going, I’m going to a place where I’m like, I gotta figure out how to wait. [40:31 –> 40:58] It’s like, use some of these clips, some of this stuff. Quote some of this stuff in my Ferrari. But this is it’s such a good. Right. And maybe it was a couple weeks ago, kind of. We kind of joked about, the caricature of Saint Francis with the whole birdbath thing in Saint on, on the feast, Saint Francis, we had a nice little video that come out of it featuring, father Innocent. [40:58 –> 41:18] He was in there, because there’s a bunch of guys, you know, you think, birdbath, but then you like, you know, talk about like this all like man in love on fire type of thing. And so there’s like, one caricature on one side where he’s he’s, not much more than, somebody who loves animals. But that kind of lacks some of the deeper understanding. [41:18 –> 41:44] Although he did, you know, have a particular sort of relationship with animals. And then on the other side, there’s this idea of like, Saint Francis who who just kind of, like, beats himself up like this. The, the extreme, extreme extreme like austerity. Jump in in rosebushes Saint Francis. Right. It’s like. Okay. Yeah, he did a lot of extreme penance. [41:44 –> 42:03] Like, there’s something to that, too. We can’t we don’t want to deny either. But there’s also like, we just have to we want to understand like what’s under both, like like what’s the common thread so that we don’t follow into some sort of, what’s the word I want to say? Extreme, on either end. And I think it comes down to this. [42:03 –> 42:29] Right. Like it is love. It is, it is love in the form of it. Like, with a particular sort of form, scent of gratitude. It is. It is a returning as opposed to like an achieving or a conquering. It’s this giving back. And it’s, it’s, it’s it’s father oriented. Right. It’s it’s a return to the father. [42:29 –> 42:48] But it’s all like in Christ, in him, with him and through him. And so all of this makes sense when it’s like, you just see it like that. The question of why do everything for Francis? It’s because Jesus and and in some way, like I get the language there’s it’s not it’s something that’s like in the self-emptying of a Francis. [42:48 –> 43:08] It’s not that he totally goes away and is destroyed and replaced by Jesus. Right. But there’s this there’s like everything is touched and transformed by Jesus. Right. We talk about for religious life, the the goal is not like the destruction of the person, but the transfiguration of us in the fullness of of, of our humanity as well. [43:08 –> 43:25] And so, Francis, like there’s this full transfiguration, this full transformation. There’s nothing in his life and nothing that he does that isn’t touched by Jesus and given to Jesus. In reply. And so this is this thing that like, like kind of touching, I think, on what father was saying. It’s like, okay, we do this, we do that. [43:25 –> 43:46] And there’s like these little boxes that are like our God boxes. And it’s like, no, like it’s it’s all gift. And we want it all to be like, recognize this gift, receive this gift, and then oriented in return, like, within and through Jesus. Back to the father. Right. Who’s who’s with us? And who is the way I don’t know. [43:46 –> 44:06] Yeah, I think it’s though. I mean, I think I don’t want to say I think it’s cool. I honestly, you could say seeing the Grace, though. That’s okay. I don’t but if felt, I mean, not for everybody, but also felt a little bit like reductive. It’s like more than that. We know, we know that. All right. [44:06 –> 44:28] Anything. Anything else? Guys, for now, I just want to add, I. I just want to just I’m just super moved and grateful that we’re spending time with Francis. Obviously, there’s a good reason to, but we’re teaching like we’re reteaching or refashioning Francis for for our audience. And I just love the fact where, like, teach like you said, father Mark May, we’re teaching what’s like what’s underneath it all. [44:28 –> 44:46] And these coming episodes, the past episodes, like we’re just trying to get it to the real heart of Francis. We just want to dive so deep into his heart. So I just love all this because it really it really changes the way we see this man as a, as a, as a lover. And and so I’m just really grateful for that. [44:46 –> 45:18] Amen. Thank you guys. Can you close with prayer for the name of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit? Amen. Brothers and sisters, I do ask the fullness of God’s blessing to come down upon you. I’m just to the intercession of Saint Francis. That we would just be so emptied of ourselves and filled with God that we would respond, to God’s goodness, to God’s care, to just his love in in our daily life that there’s only one response and just to give everything back to him and praise and adoration and gratitude. [45:18 –> 45:29] I pray for the gift, this grace and gift for everyone. I bless your brothers and sisters in the name of the father and the son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Amen. [45:29 –> 45:50] Shout out. Shout out, father or Brother Francois and the brothers and the Saint Leopold. Friends for rocking and shout out Chris bending here for rocking at leadership meetings as he does definitely rocked it. Shout out to Michel to his wife for letting him come. That’s a very real thing. We tried. We tried to get her to say, hey, can we keep Chris for a little more time? [45:50 –> 45:55] She’s like, now, sorry, you need to come home. [45:55 –> 46:05] And. All right. Great. Well, we’ll see you guys next week with special guest Father John. Donatella. Peace. Peace, y’all. [46:05 –> 46:09] Poco. Our poco bombs are. You got so much pedigree. Nothing. You know that we