Episode Summary
Do you ever notice how loud your ego gets the moment it feels threatened?
In this episode, the friars continue their series on holy silence, turning to the silence of self-love: the noisy, defensive voice of pride, self-reliance, and self-protection that flares up whenever we feel hurt, criticized, or unseen. Building on last episode’s conversation about the interior monologue, they name what’s underneath so much of that inner noise an inordinate love of self, rooted in the fear that if we stop performing or defending ourselves, we simply won’t matter.
The friars trace this pattern to its root in pride and self-reliance, and offer a different path forward. Not trying harder, not performing better, but receiving the truth that we are already beloved sons and daughters of a Father whose love, as one friar puts it, is “always maxed out.” Poverty becomes the medicine: the freedom to be little, dependent, and unashamed of our weakness, rather than exhausted from constantly proving our worth.
Silencing self-love doesn’t mean self-neglect or indifference to growth. It means letting go of the exhausting work of managing our image and resting instead in the security of a Father who already knows us fully and loves us completely, correction and all.
Join us as we learn to quiet the ego, receive correction with humility, and rediscover the freedom of being loved for who we are, not for what we can prove.
Episode Transcript
[00:00 –> 00:24] Hey, what’s going on? Is Father Pete here? I just want to pause and thank you for making the Poco Poco podcast a possibility and possible. Every episode we share, every person reach is because of you. So if you move to join our mission as a monthly supporter or increase your gifts, we’d be so grateful. Your support helps us lead more souls to encounter Christ little by little.
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[00:34 –> 00:38] You’re listening to the Poco le Poco podcast, sponsored by Spirit Juice Studios.
[00:38 –> 00:45] Poco. Our poco bombs are. You got so much pedigree. Nothing. You know that we are. We make our way.
[00:45 –> 00:57] Hey, I’m Marc maron. Hey, everybody. Father innocent here. Hey, everyone. Father Angelus here. And, father, that summer life. Still at summer life.
[00:57 –> 01:04] I don’t think we’re, like, sick of each other yet. Doing all right? Doing all right? No, I’ve appreciated this, and I. I feel like there’s a,
[01:04 –> 01:26] We’re it’s something different, right? Like, I feel like it’s a little bit of, like a change of pace, for sure. Yeah. And I definitely, I definitely think we’re. There’s always some substance, but I feel like the, the weight of this in a good way. Like this I think we’re I don’t know, I think there’s it’s substantive I think and it’s very practical to I think that turned to like the teaching but also the practical is a really good thing.
[01:26 –> 01:57] Yeah. And I appreciate that. And maybe we’ll see if we can if that becomes the thing because I think like, yeah, that is especially like I think there’s, we’ve, I don’t know, I think it feel like it came up somewhat organically, but just like, okay, hey, here’s some like very, very common human experiences. And let’s go ahead and and not just tell people to bring it to the Lord, but let’s go ahead and help also my a little bit, you know, so I think that’s good.
[01:57 –> 02:16] In the background there’s a little bit of, what’s what’s the occasion, what’s going on? There’s a little party in the background. Sorry about that, guys. We have, this is the last week of apostolate, so we have a cookout today with the neighbors. Tomorrow is free. Zoo Wednesdays at the Bronx Zoo. So we’re taking some of the neighbors to the zoo, which is a highlight of the year.
[02:16 –> 02:35] We had karaoke last week, which is always, always a highlight of the year as well. And then we have, we’re going to have a healing service, on Thursday for the neighbors as well, preach and do a Eucharistic healing procession for them. So the, the, did anyone stand out? So like the, the neighbors, and down in Harlem come to karaoke?
[02:35 –> 02:51] The people kind of show up. People show it takes a little while. People kind of get out, and then all of a sudden the room, all the entire room is dancing the entire time for everyone. Someone said that karaoke is really healing for people because it’s like, you get up there, you’re vulnerable, you’re a little exposed, and then everybody’s a big fan of you.
[02:51 –> 03:10] So it’s like helps you like have confidence in yourself. So you see that it’s really, really beautiful. We have a neighbor who sings Whitney Houston every year, our friend Dolores father, and since she’s father and since her favorite, she always sings I want to know What Love is with one of the partial ints, which is great. There’s always this really, really good.
[03:10 –> 03:29] So it’s really a lot of fun. Do you guys have a karaoke song? Not really. I didn’t sing this year, surprisingly, because I think I was cooking, which was going to be a pizza. But, last year I sang, is it ain’t no mountain high enough? Yeah, I think so. I’m like, yeah. Even though that was fun.
[03:29 –> 03:47] A little duet with one of the neighbors that was cool too. So, do you get up there for the innocent? I got up there with our neighbors. Yep. With Dolores, with Carol Mercedes. Like, yeah, I, I yeah. Anyway, I do get up there. I think it’s help. It’s fun and. Yeah. And you got to kind of like.
[03:47 –> 04:07] Yeah, I think they there’s one thing for, you know, one of our friends to, to sing, but they, you know, it mean in a kind of fits with the less it’s better when somebody else is with them. Yeah. The patients love it. Let’s just acknowledge they love it. I mean, it’s a, it’s amazing like event. Yeah. They every there’s a tradition to that.
[04:07 –> 04:33] One of the last songs is all the women in the room sing. And girls just want to have fun like dancing around. Yeah I remember that was pretty, pretty wild. That’s Titian, Denise, right? Our volunteers make that happen. Okay. What? You guys will be proud of me. I think it’s a testament to Father Pete more than anything, but we, you know, there’s, like, a whole bunch of, like, you know, there’s new versions of the liturgy of the hours coming out.
[04:33 –> 04:54] And so I and I do, I think it is a kind of a grace moment to kind of bring that back into people’s just awareness, you know. And I do think it’s like an, a beautiful accessible prayer that this fits in a lot of great places. But anyway for Ascension, we did two, two sets of morning prayer and one evening prayer.
[04:54 –> 05:17] But, you know, one of the things that we do is there’s like, there’s a certain degree of singing, and I. Yes. And it is my, my most, what’s the word? Disproportionate fear is in front of others. And we’ll see how it gets, you know, hopefully, maybe gets out a tune or something like that. But, they can kind of do some background stuff on it to make it.
[05:18 –> 05:39] Yeah, something like that. Maybe just multiply it by the voice. But what’s funny about that? Like, I realize it’s me and him in the, in the, in the fryer in the room where we record the Ascension videos. It’s just the two of us, and we’re the only two in the house and then the camera. And it’s funny because, like, Father Pete is like, really a good, safe person for me in many ways and in most ways.
[05:39 –> 05:58] And even in seminary, he was like, when we had to go to like, music practice. He was like my guy. And he anyway, I just, I feel like, comfortable around him. Yeah. And so, you know, we are just there and I, you know, I had I’d sing how I sang, but I wasn’t like, freaking out about it.
[05:58 –> 06:17] I didn’t have the deep anxiety that needed to go from monologue to dialog, because somebody who I trusted was with me in it. But anyway, it’s also funny just because when it goes out, it’ll go out to, I don’t know, a thousand thousands of people will see it. And so I’m so proud of it. So all of a sudden I’ll be singing in front of thousands of people.
[06:17 –> 06:34] I love that, bro. I love that. So good. So we’re going to talk about this, about self-love and the silence of self-love. I’m just going to introduce I’m going to interject I have this in here anxiety about now that like oh man, I the recording thing. So I’m just going to relate that to the Lord. I’m not going to go in a monologue in my head.
[06:35 –> 06:48] I’m going to stay connected to you guys and say, hey, I’m okay. It’s okay. This internet’s going to be fine. We had four great episodes. If I don’t get the fifth one, that’s okay. Lord, I welcome you here to name it. Yeah. Hey, man, I.
[06:48 –> 07:18] It’s all going to be all right. All right. You want me to jump in here? I’m happy to. Okay. So I feel like, again, I’ve kind of been I’ve. I’ve tried to to kind of lead well here and and just give some encouragement along the way before we dive into things. And again, I’m just going to say that I want to bless everybody in the, in the reality that that practicing silence is practicing prayer is practicing communion with God.
[07:18 –> 07:45] It’s a new way of like kind of living and breathing, like in the spiritual life, like becoming spiritual people. Almost. Right. So silence again is not the discipline, but we’re talking about like, like reality and in a different way, right? To be with God. And to experience his rest, his recollection, recollection and his stillness. And that brings this silence, interior silence.
[07:45 –> 08:07] To our human experience. And it takes practice, and it takes kind of this banishment of discouragement or self-criticism, because it does take time. But I also want to remind people that it’s a grace. You can’t get silence, you can’t acquire it. You can’t practice enough where you’re kind of, you know, it’s not a pill. It but it’s a grace, it’s a gift.
[08:07 –> 08:39] And God wants to give it to us, and we have a part to play in that. Right. And so we the way we show up to life expressly to prayer is just going kind of to usher in or to kind of to kind of make it, it’s going to quicken the grace. Guys, we know, again, in the context of really focusing on this episode, we know that our ego, if I could say this, our ego, our selfishness, our self focus is really loud.
[08:39 –> 09:08] And that’s kind of like a unique, kind of playful, artistic way to say it. But our like, our, Yeah, like our self because again, in our wounded self and our sin and our struggle, our again our pride or self-reliance, all the selves, it creates a lot of noise in our life. And last episode we talked about the interior monologue, which is really loud and kind of consistent, but also selfishness.
[09:08 –> 09:44] And our our wounded ego is also loud. And there’s a ton maybe I’ll, I can I can open it up here as well to you guys, but I think it’d be really good to, to to land the plane. Like, what do we mean by that? And basically there’s a lot of different examples, but in my fear and anxiety or my insecurity, the way that I respond is by trying to fix it myself, relying, being self reliant.
[09:44 –> 10:17] And then I go into this mode of fixing and doing it myself and trying to prove myself. And in the present moment, in the present circumstances that can be frenetic and stressful and anxious and and it could rob me of interior peace and silence that again, that’s that’s one example, when I get hurt, when someone, hurts me or criticizes me, or.
[10:17 –> 10:40] Yeah, just like maybe it’s just in daily conversations or at the in the workplace or in my fame, like in family life or in our own fraternity. When I defend myself, when I’m hurt and insecure and I don’t, like, live from the deeper places, then I respond or excuse me, I react quickly and I’m quick to defend myself.
[10:40 –> 11:06] And so I fill the space with self-protection and and again, my, my ego’s wounded. And so then I, I use the in that self-defense. I’m quick to, to be really noisy and really I protect myself by verbalizing stuff or I, I get in that self rumination in my, in my own mind, in my own heart, like, oh man, I can’t believe you did that.
[11:06 –> 11:33] Or oh, he’s such a jerk or all these different things because my, my ego was wounded. And so the response is, is really frenetic and anxious and so focused. And I’m still stuck in myself. Right. So, guys, I give a few examples. If anybody else has any examples, and then I’m happy to kind of to kind of lead us like kind of the medicine, like how do we silence the, self-love and ego?
[11:33 –> 11:53] But I if you guys want to, if you have any thoughts and continuing to help me kind of set this up for just maybe the only thing to add is, and oftentimes in these places, it’s this continual belief that we’re alone. And so then if I’m alone, I don’t have help. If I’m alone, I have to figure this out on my own.
[11:53 –> 12:11] I have to do everything on my own. And then therefore, I have to defend myself. Like if I if I want a place at the table or if I want to place a part of this family, if I want a place as a, is the community, or if I want my gifts to matter, or I want my, you know, if I want me to to to be able to survive, it feels almost like a survival thing.
[12:11 –> 12:27] If I’m going to survive, I have to do it, I have to I have to insert myself. I have to make it happen. I have to argue. I have to win the argument. It’s my opinion matters. Because if I don’t do any of that, it’s almost like it’s funny. Like as we desired healing grow, it’s like we’ll cease to exist almost.
[12:27 –> 12:44] And so it’s like, I have to do it all. And I have to keep myself, like present and relevant. Right? And if I don’t do that, then I’m all alone, and then I’ll kind of cease to fall back into something where, that that makes me afraid that I, that I won’t matter or that nobody will choose me or nobody will want me.
[12:44 –> 13:06] Right. And so it feels important just to kind of also set the tone that usually we feel really low. And when we live this way, because if we felt connected and loved and seen and safe, we wouldn’t have to defend ourselves this way. And we want to have to make, like myself, the most important thing. Or I would have to like, keep pushing myself so I can just matter to everyone else.
[13:06 –> 13:15] Yeah, I’m interested to get some more examples of it. Because this sounds like it’s.
[13:15 –> 13:35] Like, what are we when we’re talking about self-love? Like in, like, self-protection or whatever? Like, what are we protecting? Because I think some of it is like, I’m afraid of getting embarrassed or I’m afraid of getting into a situation that’s, like, uncomfortable or I’m afraid that. But like what? Like, can you can you can you guys help?
[13:35 –> 14:09] Like, kind of like, okay. Like, what does this conversation actually like? Can we get an example? Yeah I it’s a great it’s a great question because what I think we’re protecting is the self. I think we’re like we we get hurt and our self, our ego or our person gets hurt. And and that’s why again to to name it, it’s like what what we’re silencing is this inordinate attachment to myself and my person, my, reputation.
[14:09 –> 14:28] That’s that’s kind of what we’re talking about. But it’s my personality. It’s it’s, my preferences. It’s again, it’s a lot of like, again, I’m sorry if it’s not really answering the question concretely, but it’s it’s the self that my persona even. It’s like the self that I present to others or the self that I want to be.
[14:28 –> 14:53] And so when, when that gets hurt, we, we, we revert back to like our original woundedness, which, which is again or when we get hurt, sorry, we revert back to our original woundedness was to to step out into pride and self focus, and self love like, okay, no one’s going to take care of me, so I have to take care of myself or provide for myself.
[14:53 –> 15:25] And so we’ll talk about the medicine in a moment. But what’s really happening is that we perceive an attack on kind of our, our, our, our self or our person or our ego. And that’s when all this stuff gets kicked up. I’m happy to keep it simple there. I’m happy to again follow Mark. Mary, if you have if there’s like lay we could pull back layers but but it’s yeah it’s it’s really like like what’s happened when when we like the our person our ego gets attacked.
[15:25 –> 15:51] That’s kind of what we’re talking about here and self-reliance and self self-protection are kind of cousins. They kind of hang out together and that’s all. And then the challenge is, is that no one really has any access to us. And so the challenge for prayer, the challenge for like intimate relationship with others, intimate relationship with the Lord, like when we’re constantly in this mode of protecting ourselves and protecting our pride or our ego, or protecting our sense of who I am or who I want to be, or my own worth even.
[15:51 –> 16:15] And then we work really hard to try to make this happen. Then it’s really hard to pray. It’s really hard to give God access to us or other people who are trying to help. But my my stuff is in the way or my my self. My self-importance is in the way. And again, I want to acknowledge as well, we don’t really do this out of, well, some people do, but not most people don’t really do this out of like, an arrogance.
[16:16 –> 16:33] I feel like we do it more out of. If I don’t do it, what will I be that, you know, like what? I’ll cease to kind of, like, be something. And so we’re not doing it because I like I really do think I’m better in you. I it’s like actually I if I, I’m afraid to actually consider how, how insignificant I would be if I don’t try so hard.
[16:33 –> 16:52] Right. And that feels more like a man. I just want to like hold that with us and our audience. You’re like, man, I feel that. I know what that’s like. And so then we make ourselves protected and self-reliant and and focus on ourselves a lot, which makes it difficult for, for God to have access to us.
[16:52 –> 17:12] Yeah. And I guess, like, I’ll just kind of share kind of the, like the image that comes to mind if you’ve ever seen somebody who is like searching for the queen bee, like in like a, like a, a hive of bees, like it’s just a funny, it’s kind of interesting thing because it’s like there’s all the this is kind of the main thing here.
[17:12 –> 17:35] The Queen and I kind of everything is oriented towards like hiding and protecting like the Queen. And it feels like a little bit like self-love is the like this love of self. And we’re talking about it here in like, a disordered way. Inordinate love of self. Yeah, yeah. And inordinate love of self is like this sort of queen bee, if you will, that like, we kind of will do a self-reliance.
[17:35 –> 18:01] Self-Protection. What I like, what kind of do everything we can to kind of, like, protect it, to hide it to, you know, whatever. So, like, if I’m honest at, like, things like, here, like, I think, again, kind of like going through, like with, like, the 12 step model is like one of the steps is, you know, like, okay, like accepting kind of the like and powerless over whatever the substance or the behavior.
[18:01 –> 18:19] And I think is that that’s like part of a movement out of like the self-love of like, okay, I’m going to actually just like be here and be honest and be seen and like, I’m not going to use any of the mechanism I can use to kind of like, protect myself, like, okay, I’m just going to do better or it’s not really that bad or other people are worse.
[18:19 –> 18:35] I’m just going to kind of be there and be honest and be vulnerable and then bring that to to the Lord. Or like, is that like a little bit of an example of, of this, this movement or like, can we, can we.
[18:35 –> 18:57] Yeah. What else? Like I’m trying to kind of get a good hold on. Like what? This, what makes this kind of a, Is it just is it not that it’s necessarily like, you, like, unique or different than, the entire conversations, but it’s a little bit more of, like, kind of like a root. Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s a yeah, they, they all kind of blend together.
[18:57 –> 19:18] So I think at the root, the root is pride and self-reliance. Like that is the brokenness, the fracturing of the fall. Is that so? Now we are stuck in ourselves. And so Father George is going to talk about what we’re really talking about is the sinful attitude of putting myself first. And when I do that, everything gets loud because of because of that.
[19:18 –> 19:46] And, and so I’m disconnected and not being able to be kind of in that interior space of stillness and in silence with the Lord. So what happens is, is father Mark, you mentioned that it’s it’s actually accepting reality, like I’m actually, over all of my weakness over reality. I’m actually powerless. And the only thing I can do is live in right relationship with God that I’m actually little poor and actually, like.
[19:46 –> 20:18] That’s what sonship is. I am just little and poor, and I need to be taking care of and self reliance doesn’t work. So focus. It doesn’t work. Self-Protection or me asserting my ego and my giftedness doesn’t work. It’s actually makes a lot of noise kicks up a lot of noise and is exhausting. So what happens is I can just be little and poor and be like, oh no, when all this comes up to to to step into the place of, of ego driven stuff and self-protection and self like proving myself, I don’t need to do that.
[20:18 –> 20:43] I just need to live in reality that I’m actually really little and poor, and I have a father who’s going to take care of me. And that’s why I put under this like the gift of poverty, like it’s okay to be poor and I can fight the movement to grasp and take care of myself or clothe myself, and I can stay poor, and I don’t have to rely on my ego or my self to do it right.
[20:43 –> 21:07] And so I think that’s just like the I think the daily decision is to notice when I am asserting myself or I’m acting from a safe, like from a, from a place of pride or, or selfishness in a lot of ways. Notice that. But also know, like I, I need to let go of my self and my need to prove and to fix and to do it myself.
[21:07 –> 21:29] And I can actually just be a poor little beloved son who has a father that will take care of him. And that will provide for him that loves him unconditionally. I don’t have to do it all by myself. So I actually think poverty is in medicine and and I mean, again, it just it’s also there’s a lot of medicines that, that, that it kind of an antidote to pride.
[21:29 –> 21:49] But I think poverty is, is a big one. So like this is perfect. I consider like we’ll just call him Frank. Frank the Paschal, it shows up and he is super talented and he was a college athlete. He got straight A’s. He’s like killing it. He looks good, acts good, and he and he joins. Religious life in discernment is good discernment.
[21:49 –> 22:12] But the reality of like and I’m not really talking about a particular partiality but like a combination of him but like and so this is like what he through the gift of is conversion. He’s recognizing that like maybe like being good at everything, performing and like myself being at the center is not what I want to do is not how I want to live because it’s disrupting.
[22:12 –> 22:25] He’s like, it’s not relaxing like possums is not fun when you’re performing the whole time. And there’s an effect of like, oh man, I’m always on. I always have to do something. I’m scanning the room to make sure I’m doing the right thing, and I, I messed up and now I’m beat myself up. Like we just feel all that.
[22:26 –> 22:45] And that’s the self-importance. That’s like the self-importance being activated, self-reliance being activated. Because I want to be a good postulant, and I want to do exactly what Father Angelus asked me to do. And I want to be religious, and I want to take vows, and I want to do all this right. And so that feels like, man, that when the self is at the center of that, it’s exhausting.
[22:46 –> 23:03] Right. And then as a, as a form later, I’m looking, you’re like, man, I feel like it’s a generational, you know, there’s some generational bondage in every family. Like I feel like our Franciscan family or even our CFR family. Like there’s generational bondage around performance and perfection. Like, man, I just got to be good. I gotta look good.
[23:03 –> 23:18] I got to do the right thing. I got a fast well and pray well, and I got to do all this stuff and the attitudes of the patient. You just see it. Every single one of them, every single one of them has this sense that I have to perform to, to be loved and to be a part of things and to be accepted.
[23:18 –> 23:36] Right. So, as father Mark made to your question, like, but at some point in passion, see if you if you let those walls go down, you’re going to find that there’s a reason I’ve been performing and living that way for a long time. There’s something in my story that threatened my dignity, that threatened my worth, that threatened my the truth of who I was.
[23:36 –> 23:56] And so I had to make a decision. Well, I don’t want to feel that way, which is awful or insecure or not good enough or alone. And so I’ve been performing for so long. Right. But the cool thing about it is that when they accept their story, when they accept, like, yeah, there was something difficult that happened to me and then I can accept that maybe I don’t have to perform.
[23:56 –> 24:20] They don’t have to be the center of attention, and I don’t have to be good at everything. And I start to accept that. Then, I can start to live in a deeper place of reality and truth. So we in, you know, as failures in the formation culture. But the Hermetic, the lens by which we see formation is, is self knowledge of my story, of me performing leads to self-acceptance, which means I can take a deep breath and be like, you know what?
[24:20 –> 24:42] Yeah, I had some of that in my life has been really difficult. And I’ve I’ve learned to live this way. And I was wounded in a particular way. And my performance has served me significantly to get me to this place. Okay. But self-acceptance and the invitation is like, what does it mean, then, to surrender that all that, that that thing that I learned to protect and self-reliance perform.
[24:42 –> 24:58] Right. And so it’s beautiful because then they can come out of it and say, well, what if other decisions point is right? Well, what if I’m a son and that means I can be weak and I can make mistakes and I can be poor, and I don’t have to, like, give a killer homily every time I preach. And I can start just to be like, wow, okay, I can just be myself.
[24:58 –> 25:22] And if if it’s not perfect, you sound perfect. If I make mistakes, it’s if it’s not exactly how I dreamed it would be, that’s okay. Right. And you kind of learn and after that acceptance happens, you learn a deeper freedom in the truth of who I am, which is a poor son and a loved son, rather than one that has to keep being perfect and do everything on my own to to be able to have a place in the world.
[25:22 –> 25:25] And so. Okay.
[25:25 –> 25:41] You know, one of the things I don’t, I don’t remember if you said it exactly, but one of the things that father highlights is, the relationship between self love and receiving corrections. You know, I certainly, I don’t know,
[25:41 –> 25:48] I don’t know what that looks like for laypeople, to be honest. I know that some of it at work,
[25:48 –> 25:54] And I’m sure, like, you know, it’s in a marriage or something like that, too. Sure.
[25:54 –> 26:17] it wasn’t just shiny, but it was like a cool article I remember reading and it talked about how it. It’s just kind of funny because it’s like everybody, everybody admits that they’re like sinners. Everybody knows that they’re imperfect. But, like, it’s amazing how, how if you were defensive, we can get in either self-protection or in attacking other people.
[26:17 –> 26:40] What other people like, see it as well, or they can sort of like say something about it or they like, allows it to, like, be revealed that it sees it. And I do think that then like, there’s just a certain, maybe simplicity that kind of comes when it’s like, okay, yeah, you know what? Like, I’m, I’m a person on a journey.
[26:40 –> 27:03] I’m loved in it. That’s okay. I’m not perfect. Jesus actually doesn’t expect me to be perfect right now. And you know what? Sometimes, like my imperfection and even my sinfulness is going to affect others. Hurt others, or be visible to others.
[27:03 –> 27:31] And sometimes people are going to, like, act from that place. And, you know, sometimes they’re going to, you know, like, respond to it in a way that’s not great and healthy. And it kind of hurts. But but there can be a certain simplicity, I guess, if it’s if it’s like we give ourselves permission to be if you are poor and to be, a work in progress to, to not be able to fix ourselves, to be seen by others and like, admit that they can, like, really see us.
[27:31 –> 27:55] Is that a little bit of the movement, bro? Absolutely. I, I’m really grateful for that. And and the only thing I add to that is it ushered. When we can live like that, it ushers in, a security, like a security that it’s actually I don’t need. Like, I know who I am in the eyes of God and and in my day, like the places of my identity.
[27:55 –> 28:14] And so therefore, like, I’m not constantly searching and my pride’s not always wounded because I’m trying to, like, trying to figure out who I am and need others. I’m not needy. And so then I have this inner security that I can have be stable in the Lord, and I can be like, okay, yeah, I can be humble and poor, like, okay.
[28:14 –> 28:36] Yeah, this happened. I don’t I don’t need you to understand or I don’t need to defend myself. Yeah. I’m weak. I made a mistake or this got comment or I got a correction. Okay. Yeah. Like, you know, it it it we can just be secure and then we remain. There’s this, stability and calmness that can can remain.
[28:36 –> 29:01] And so therefore, I can live life not constantly robbed or hijacked or kind of uprooted, but I can remain calm and secure and safe in the presence of the Lord in the face of all these different people or places or things that constantly kind of wound my pride. So I love that. And then I think this is where, the silence.
[29:01 –> 29:29] We can we can calm the ego or silence the ego, and then I can drink in like that. The different, the deeper parts of my spiritual life or my relationship with the Lord. And because that, that that I give, that I give that the place of power rather than, than other people or or my even my ego. The the interesting thing about though, when we’re so protected and so reliant and so like amped up living that way, there’s no room for curiosity.
[29:29 –> 29:52] Which means like, there’s no room to like, consider like why I’m acting the way I’m acting or why I’m feeling the way I’m feeling right. So the reality of those walls can come down a little bit, and then I can it can silence that part of my the intensity of that. Then I can say with the Lord, or I can say with people who love me and start to be aware of like, oh man, I’m curious about why that that brother triggers the heck out of me.
[29:52 –> 30:21] Or I’m curious about why I always get insecure when I do this, or I’m curious about, like, why I’m anxious after this meeting. Right? So you can start to think, because curiosity is the key to healing, right? Is the key to being like, why am I feeling the way I’m feeling? What’s happening? Why is it that person that always does this like, but if you’re self protected, you’re going to like go after people and blame people and criticize people and make them the problem when you’re like, well, hey dude, like I’m on armed, right?
[30:21 –> 30:39] And so I think it’s like when you when things can settle down, then we can get to the places where we can start to be curious and ask questions, which means that Jesus can come and can walk that journey with me of like, why? Why is this happening? Why do I show up this way? Why this brother, that brother or my wife or husband or my wife or whatever that may be?
[30:39 –> 30:57] I think another thing, just real quick, as far as, like naming, like when we silence, self-love or silence the ego. I think repentance is also a part of this, right? Because pride is the root, like is the root of sin. And that’s what, Father Basil talks about. So it’s like self-love is the root of sin pride.
[30:57 –> 31:19] And so I think when we silence self-love or silence the ego, it’s a way of repenting. It’s a way of saying no, like Lord I. And again, in a dialog, Lord, I am sorry for being self-reliant and looking at myself and relying on myself. I am sorry for getting stuck and and and and it does violence to us.
[31:19 –> 31:42] Right. And so I think it could be really beautiful as a, as a concrete step is just to learn how to be repentant in a new way of the, of the way that our ego does take control or our self-love or self focus. Self reliance takes control. And I think we can silence if we if we take that to confession and like not, I’m like, father, I’m sorry for my ego.
[31:42 –> 32:03] I’m sorry for how this manifests. And I wonder if we be can we become more and more repentant in that then I think I think, I mean, conversion happens. Healing happens. And then I think, again, this interior place of stillness and stability comes with the Lord.
[32:03 –> 32:10] So what’s the, like? What’s the prayer? How do we bring Jesus into this? Like, what’s the,
[32:10 –> 32:32] What’s the destination? We’re trying to have the good shepherd, you know, lead us to here. That’s not self-love. Yeah. I mean, father, just if you if you want to step in here as well. But I think, again, all these are connected. I like all these different ways. I think the green pastures and the restful waters is, Is that this?
[32:32 –> 33:09] Instead of surrendering to myself or like, choosing myself in the present moment, I choose to be a little poor son of the father, like the green Pastures is is to say yes or no to ego and yes to being taken care of, yes to being poor and humble and open, instead of reliance, instead of self-reliance. So I, I do think the green pastures are restful water is, is is like this, this movement of being self-focused to father focused or Jesus focused.
[33:09 –> 33:33] And that’s I think that’s the movement of the spiritual life. But I do think it’s like it’s we don’t have to do it. And to be self-focused and to to let our pride take over. But I can be humble and little and poor before father, who’s going to provide and take care of me and kind of ultimately be my stability.
[33:33 –> 33:56] Yeah. And I think this shift like it’s, it’s the self-protection so freely and so focus is like at the service of something. And what it’s serving is my insecurity. And my question is like, do you love me and am I enough. Right. And so the the idea of like, if that can fall, like what I really want to know is that I’m loved.
[33:56 –> 34:17] And can can in prayer if I, if I let these things calm down enough, can I see someone looking back at me in prayer and they tell me that I love you, I see you, I, I know what, I know what you need, I know I know your heart’s desire and you don’t have to perform and work so dang hard for love.
[34:17 –> 34:33] Are you like, wow, okay. And if I can be loved, then I can start to understand the deeper identity questions, the deeper things that like, man, okay, even in my week, you mean I don’t have to protect myself from my addiction? I mean, I don’t have to protect myself from the places that I don’t like. No, I love you there, too.
[34:33 –> 34:56] I see you there. You mean I don’t have to protect myself from a difficult family situation? Or am I like, yeah, I see you, I love you, right? And so it’s, at the end of the day, the simplicity. Like, I love your move to simplicity for the mark, Mary. Like, I’m performing so hard for a reason. Like, okay, maybe just a good question is, like, what are you working so hard for?
[34:56 –> 35:15] Like, why are you okay? Maybe it’s because I just know that I want to be. I mean, again, at the end of the day, that’s the answer to everything is just like, I want to be loved. I want to be known. I want to be important. I want to matter. Like, well, what if you just stopped for a second and let me look at you and say, you matter to me?
[35:15 –> 35:43] Like I love you. Even on all those places you’re trying to hide and protect. You, like build a fortress around. And then if that love penetrates because of the silence entering in, then it’s like, well, maybe I could live in a different way. And if I get up every day and show up to prayer and show to my interior reality of seeing the face who loves me and seeing the face you says, or the person who says, you matter me like, and you don’t have to perform like, whoa, okay, what if that could be true just for today?
[35:43 –> 35:59] You’re like, okay, I’ll try again. And all of a sudden you’re like, living in a different way and all those and all the like, the working so hard, the silences and settles down and you’re like, man, okay, maybe I can let myself be loved.
[35:59 –> 36:18] And I, I heard a parent talk, a dad talk about his kids the other day, and he said something along the lines of like, like my. Yeah. Like my love for my kids is always, like, maxed out. Like it’s always. It’s always turned, like, all the way up. And so and it’s and it’s kind of reflecting on they’re still young like that.
[36:18 –> 36:45] They’re going to have these experiences that that kids have of, you know, like thinking, a certain success is going to add to their being loved or a certain failure is going to like, pull from it. And like, with this dad or just saying it’s just like, yeah, but like I, I understand how that happens, but at the same like I want them to know that like it’s always like it’s yeah, it’s always Max that when I like, I throw away the key like it’s not, you know what I mean?
[36:45 –> 37:05] Like it’s not, it’s not going to go anywhere other than, like, totally and completely and forever, you know, and maybe that’s like a little bit of where we can find like the ultimate safety and protection and sort of identity. And this is, you know, from the baptismal waters as the father says, like, it’s my beloved son with who I.
[37:05 –> 37:23] Well, please, just knowing that like his love for us is always maxed out and, absolutely. And then and then asking for the grace to live kind of more and more from that place and discern from that place and to, like, respond from that place.
[37:23 –> 37:46] Is that kind of the idea? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And again, I love how we’re anchoring it. And I instead of like our own self-made identity, it’s the identity of the father. And just continued like, I think it’s an identity, the medicine, his identity, especially in this, in this, in this context and, the stillness and and and rest that can come in because we’re beloved sons.
[37:46 –> 38:06] I just think it’s real. And that’s the silence we long for. I think that that that plays great. Well, thanks, everybody for listening. Thanks for being with us on the journey. Can you close this with prayer for the angels? Yeah. In the name of the father and the son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Heavenly father, we come before you in such great gratitude for the gift of these episodes on Silent Sender.
[38:06 –> 38:30] And Lord, we do repent of of our self, all the self that gets in the way, all the self focus, all the self, inordinate self love, and particularly the self-protection and self-reliance. Lord, what if there could be a grace today for all of us to experience the deeper surrender of that, and an opportunity to receive all your love and your hope?
[38:30 –> 38:39] Your Providence that cares for us deeply, and your heart that’s constantly poured out for us fully and extravagantly.
[38:39 –> 38:46] In our repentance for every day, we ask that that makes room for more of you and more of your love. Father.
[38:47 –> 39:12] We pray this Jesus in your name. Amen. Amen. Thanks guys for being on the journey. That little, little, little stop in the silence. It’s beautiful. Yeah. That’s repentance. Yeah, this is great. It seems like a great book too. Yeah. It’s. No, it’s awesome. All right. And we’ll see you next month. I mean, we’ll see you next week. I don’t know what we’re going to be talking about.
[39:12 –> 39:22] We might continue this. We might do something else, but we’ll we’ll let you know. Can I just say to me, it was great to be a part of things today, even with a small power hiccup,
[39:22 –> 39:24] All right. Bye, everybody. Peace.
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[00:45 –> 00:57] Hey, I’m Marc maron. Hey, everybody. Father innocent here. Hey, everyone. Father Angelus here. And, father, that summer life. Still at summer life.
[00:57 –> 01:04] I don’t think we’re, like, sick of each other yet. Doing all right? Doing all right? No, I’ve appreciated this, and I. I feel like there’s a,
[01:04 –> 01:26] We’re it’s something different, right? Like, I feel like it’s a little bit of, like a change of pace, for sure. Yeah. And I definitely, I definitely think we’re. There’s always some substance, but I feel like the, the weight of this in a good way. Like this I think we’re I don’t know, I think there’s it’s substantive I think and it’s very practical to I think that turned to like the teaching but also the practical is a really good thing.
[01:26 –> 01:57] Yeah. And I appreciate that. And maybe we’ll see if we can if that becomes the thing because I think like, yeah, that is especially like I think there’s, we’ve, I don’t know, I think it feel like it came up somewhat organically, but just like, okay, hey, here’s some like very, very common human experiences. And let’s go ahead and and not just tell people to bring it to the Lord, but let’s go ahead and help also my a little bit, you know, so I think that’s good.
[01:57 –> 02:16] In the background there’s a little bit of, what’s what’s the occasion, what’s going on? There’s a little party in the background. Sorry about that, guys. We have, this is the last week of apostolate, so we have a cookout today with the neighbors. Tomorrow is free. Zoo Wednesdays at the Bronx Zoo. So we’re taking some of the neighbors to the zoo, which is a highlight of the year.
[02:16 –> 02:35] We had karaoke last week, which is always, always a highlight of the year as well. And then we have, we’re going to have a healing service, on Thursday for the neighbors as well, preach and do a Eucharistic healing procession for them. So the, the, did anyone stand out? So like the, the neighbors, and down in Harlem come to karaoke?
[02:35 –> 02:51] The people kind of show up. People show it takes a little while. People kind of get out, and then all of a sudden the room, all the entire room is dancing the entire time for everyone. Someone said that karaoke is really healing for people because it’s like, you get up there, you’re vulnerable, you’re a little exposed, and then everybody’s a big fan of you.
[02:51 –> 03:10] So it’s like helps you like have confidence in yourself. So you see that it’s really, really beautiful. We have a neighbor who sings Whitney Houston every year, our friend Dolores father, and since she’s father and since her favorite, she always sings I want to know What Love is with one of the partial ints, which is great. There’s always this really, really good.
[03:10 –> 03:29] So it’s really a lot of fun. Do you guys have a karaoke song? Not really. I didn’t sing this year, surprisingly, because I think I was cooking, which was going to be a pizza. But, last year I sang, is it ain’t no mountain high enough? Yeah, I think so. I’m like, yeah. Even though that was fun.
[03:29 –> 03:47] A little duet with one of the neighbors that was cool too. So, do you get up there for the innocent? I got up there with our neighbors. Yep. With Dolores, with Carol Mercedes. Like, yeah, I, I yeah. Anyway, I do get up there. I think it’s help. It’s fun and. Yeah. And you got to kind of like.
[03:47 –> 04:07] Yeah, I think they there’s one thing for, you know, one of our friends to, to sing, but they, you know, it mean in a kind of fits with the less it’s better when somebody else is with them. Yeah. The patients love it. Let’s just acknowledge they love it. I mean, it’s a, it’s amazing like event. Yeah. They every there’s a tradition to that.
[04:07 –> 04:33] One of the last songs is all the women in the room sing. And girls just want to have fun like dancing around. Yeah I remember that was pretty, pretty wild. That’s Titian, Denise, right? Our volunteers make that happen. Okay. What? You guys will be proud of me. I think it’s a testament to Father Pete more than anything, but we, you know, there’s, like, a whole bunch of, like, you know, there’s new versions of the liturgy of the hours coming out.
[04:33 –> 04:54] And so I and I do, I think it is a kind of a grace moment to kind of bring that back into people’s just awareness, you know. And I do think it’s like an, a beautiful accessible prayer that this fits in a lot of great places. But anyway for Ascension, we did two, two sets of morning prayer and one evening prayer.
[04:54 –> 05:17] But, you know, one of the things that we do is there’s like, there’s a certain degree of singing, and I. Yes. And it is my, my most, what’s the word? Disproportionate fear is in front of others. And we’ll see how it gets, you know, hopefully, maybe gets out a tune or something like that. But, they can kind of do some background stuff on it to make it.
[05:18 –> 05:39] Yeah, something like that. Maybe just multiply it by the voice. But what’s funny about that? Like, I realize it’s me and him in the, in the, in the fryer in the room where we record the Ascension videos. It’s just the two of us, and we’re the only two in the house and then the camera. And it’s funny because, like, Father Pete is like, really a good, safe person for me in many ways and in most ways.
[05:39 –> 05:58] And even in seminary, he was like, when we had to go to like, music practice. He was like my guy. And he anyway, I just, I feel like, comfortable around him. Yeah. And so, you know, we are just there and I, you know, I had I’d sing how I sang, but I wasn’t like, freaking out about it.
[05:58 –> 06:17] I didn’t have the deep anxiety that needed to go from monologue to dialog, because somebody who I trusted was with me in it. But anyway, it’s also funny just because when it goes out, it’ll go out to, I don’t know, a thousand thousands of people will see it. And so I’m so proud of it. So all of a sudden I’ll be singing in front of thousands of people.
[06:17 –> 06:34] I love that, bro. I love that. So good. So we’re going to talk about this, about self-love and the silence of self-love. I’m just going to introduce I’m going to interject I have this in here anxiety about now that like oh man, I the recording thing. So I’m just going to relate that to the Lord. I’m not going to go in a monologue in my head.
[06:35 –> 06:48] I’m going to stay connected to you guys and say, hey, I’m okay. It’s okay. This internet’s going to be fine. We had four great episodes. If I don’t get the fifth one, that’s okay. Lord, I welcome you here to name it. Yeah. Hey, man, I.
[06:48 –> 07:18] It’s all going to be all right. All right. You want me to jump in here? I’m happy to. Okay. So I feel like, again, I’ve kind of been I’ve. I’ve tried to to kind of lead well here and and just give some encouragement along the way before we dive into things. And again, I’m just going to say that I want to bless everybody in the, in the reality that that practicing silence is practicing prayer is practicing communion with God.
[07:18 –> 07:45] It’s a new way of like kind of living and breathing, like in the spiritual life, like becoming spiritual people. Almost. Right. So silence again is not the discipline, but we’re talking about like, like reality and in a different way, right? To be with God. And to experience his rest, his recollection, recollection and his stillness. And that brings this silence, interior silence.
[07:45 –> 08:07] To our human experience. And it takes practice, and it takes kind of this banishment of discouragement or self-criticism, because it does take time. But I also want to remind people that it’s a grace. You can’t get silence, you can’t acquire it. You can’t practice enough where you’re kind of, you know, it’s not a pill. It but it’s a grace, it’s a gift.
[08:07 –> 08:39] And God wants to give it to us, and we have a part to play in that. Right. And so we the way we show up to life expressly to prayer is just going kind of to usher in or to kind of to kind of make it, it’s going to quicken the grace. Guys, we know, again, in the context of really focusing on this episode, we know that our ego, if I could say this, our ego, our selfishness, our self focus is really loud.
[08:39 –> 09:08] And that’s kind of like a unique, kind of playful, artistic way to say it. But our like, our, Yeah, like our self because again, in our wounded self and our sin and our struggle, our again our pride or self-reliance, all the selves, it creates a lot of noise in our life. And last episode we talked about the interior monologue, which is really loud and kind of consistent, but also selfishness.
[09:08 –> 09:44] And our our wounded ego is also loud. And there’s a ton maybe I’ll, I can I can open it up here as well to you guys, but I think it’d be really good to, to to land the plane. Like, what do we mean by that? And basically there’s a lot of different examples, but in my fear and anxiety or my insecurity, the way that I respond is by trying to fix it myself, relying, being self reliant.
[09:44 –> 10:17] And then I go into this mode of fixing and doing it myself and trying to prove myself. And in the present moment, in the present circumstances that can be frenetic and stressful and anxious and and it could rob me of interior peace and silence that again, that’s that’s one example, when I get hurt, when someone, hurts me or criticizes me, or.
[10:17 –> 10:40] Yeah, just like maybe it’s just in daily conversations or at the in the workplace or in my fame, like in family life or in our own fraternity. When I defend myself, when I’m hurt and insecure and I don’t, like, live from the deeper places, then I respond or excuse me, I react quickly and I’m quick to defend myself.
[10:40 –> 11:06] And so I fill the space with self-protection and and again, my, my ego’s wounded. And so then I, I use the in that self-defense. I’m quick to, to be really noisy and really I protect myself by verbalizing stuff or I, I get in that self rumination in my, in my own mind, in my own heart, like, oh man, I can’t believe you did that.
[11:06 –> 11:33] Or oh, he’s such a jerk or all these different things because my, my ego was wounded. And so the response is, is really frenetic and anxious and so focused. And I’m still stuck in myself. Right. So, guys, I give a few examples. If anybody else has any examples, and then I’m happy to kind of to kind of lead us like kind of the medicine, like how do we silence the, self-love and ego?
[11:33 –> 11:53] But I if you guys want to, if you have any thoughts and continuing to help me kind of set this up for just maybe the only thing to add is, and oftentimes in these places, it’s this continual belief that we’re alone. And so then if I’m alone, I don’t have help. If I’m alone, I have to figure this out on my own.
[11:53 –> 12:11] I have to do everything on my own. And then therefore, I have to defend myself. Like if I if I want a place at the table or if I want to place a part of this family, if I want a place as a, is the community, or if I want my gifts to matter, or I want my, you know, if I want me to to to be able to survive, it feels almost like a survival thing.
[12:11 –> 12:27] If I’m going to survive, I have to do it, I have to I have to insert myself. I have to make it happen. I have to argue. I have to win the argument. It’s my opinion matters. Because if I don’t do any of that, it’s almost like it’s funny. Like as we desired healing grow, it’s like we’ll cease to exist almost.
[12:27 –> 12:44] And so it’s like, I have to do it all. And I have to keep myself, like present and relevant. Right? And if I don’t do that, then I’m all alone, and then I’ll kind of cease to fall back into something where, that that makes me afraid that I, that I won’t matter or that nobody will choose me or nobody will want me.
[12:44 –> 13:06] Right. And so it feels important just to kind of also set the tone that usually we feel really low. And when we live this way, because if we felt connected and loved and seen and safe, we wouldn’t have to defend ourselves this way. And we want to have to make, like myself, the most important thing. Or I would have to like, keep pushing myself so I can just matter to everyone else.
[13:06 –> 13:15] Yeah, I’m interested to get some more examples of it. Because this sounds like it’s.
[13:15 –> 13:35] Like, what are we when we’re talking about self-love? Like in, like, self-protection or whatever? Like, what are we protecting? Because I think some of it is like, I’m afraid of getting embarrassed or I’m afraid of getting into a situation that’s, like, uncomfortable or I’m afraid that. But like what? Like, can you can you can you guys help?
[13:35 –> 14:09] Like, kind of like, okay. Like, what does this conversation actually like? Can we get an example? Yeah I it’s a great it’s a great question because what I think we’re protecting is the self. I think we’re like we we get hurt and our self, our ego or our person gets hurt. And and that’s why again to to name it, it’s like what what we’re silencing is this inordinate attachment to myself and my person, my, reputation.
[14:09 –> 14:28] That’s that’s kind of what we’re talking about. But it’s my personality. It’s it’s, my preferences. It’s again, it’s a lot of like, again, I’m sorry if it’s not really answering the question concretely, but it’s it’s the self that my persona even. It’s like the self that I present to others or the self that I want to be.
[14:28 –> 14:53] And so when, when that gets hurt, we, we, we revert back to like our original woundedness, which, which is again or when we get hurt, sorry, we revert back to our original woundedness was to to step out into pride and self focus, and self love like, okay, no one’s going to take care of me, so I have to take care of myself or provide for myself.
[14:53 –> 15:25] And so we’ll talk about the medicine in a moment. But what’s really happening is that we perceive an attack on kind of our, our, our, our self or our person or our ego. And that’s when all this stuff gets kicked up. I’m happy to keep it simple there. I’m happy to again follow Mark. Mary, if you have if there’s like lay we could pull back layers but but it’s yeah it’s it’s really like like what’s happened when when we like the our person our ego gets attacked.
[15:25 –> 15:51] That’s kind of what we’re talking about here and self-reliance and self self-protection are kind of cousins. They kind of hang out together and that’s all. And then the challenge is, is that no one really has any access to us. And so the challenge for prayer, the challenge for like intimate relationship with others, intimate relationship with the Lord, like when we’re constantly in this mode of protecting ourselves and protecting our pride or our ego, or protecting our sense of who I am or who I want to be, or my own worth even.
[15:51 –> 16:15] And then we work really hard to try to make this happen. Then it’s really hard to pray. It’s really hard to give God access to us or other people who are trying to help. But my my stuff is in the way or my my self. My self-importance is in the way. And again, I want to acknowledge as well, we don’t really do this out of, well, some people do, but not most people don’t really do this out of like, an arrogance.
[16:16 –> 16:33] I feel like we do it more out of. If I don’t do it, what will I be that, you know, like what? I’ll cease to kind of, like, be something. And so we’re not doing it because I like I really do think I’m better in you. I it’s like actually I if I, I’m afraid to actually consider how, how insignificant I would be if I don’t try so hard.
[16:33 –> 16:52] Right. And that feels more like a man. I just want to like hold that with us and our audience. You’re like, man, I feel that. I know what that’s like. And so then we make ourselves protected and self-reliant and and focus on ourselves a lot, which makes it difficult for, for God to have access to us.
[16:52 –> 17:12] Yeah. And I guess, like, I’ll just kind of share kind of the, like the image that comes to mind if you’ve ever seen somebody who is like searching for the queen bee, like in like a, like a, a hive of bees, like it’s just a funny, it’s kind of interesting thing because it’s like there’s all the this is kind of the main thing here.
[17:12 –> 17:35] The Queen and I kind of everything is oriented towards like hiding and protecting like the Queen. And it feels like a little bit like self-love is the like this love of self. And we’re talking about it here in like, a disordered way. Inordinate love of self. Yeah, yeah. And inordinate love of self is like this sort of queen bee, if you will, that like, we kind of will do a self-reliance.
[17:35 –> 18:01] Self-Protection. What I like, what kind of do everything we can to kind of, like, protect it, to hide it to, you know, whatever. So, like, if I’m honest at, like, things like, here, like, I think, again, kind of like going through, like with, like, the 12 step model is like one of the steps is, you know, like, okay, like accepting kind of the like and powerless over whatever the substance or the behavior.
[18:01 –> 18:19] And I think is that that’s like part of a movement out of like the self-love of like, okay, I’m going to actually just like be here and be honest and be seen and like, I’m not going to use any of the mechanism I can use to kind of like, protect myself, like, okay, I’m just going to do better or it’s not really that bad or other people are worse.
[18:19 –> 18:35] I’m just going to kind of be there and be honest and be vulnerable and then bring that to to the Lord. Or like, is that like a little bit of an example of, of this, this movement or like, can we, can we.
[18:35 –> 18:57] Yeah. What else? Like I’m trying to kind of get a good hold on. Like what? This, what makes this kind of a, Is it just is it not that it’s necessarily like, you, like, unique or different than, the entire conversations, but it’s a little bit more of, like, kind of like a root. Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s a yeah, they, they all kind of blend together.
[18:57 –> 19:18] So I think at the root, the root is pride and self-reliance. Like that is the brokenness, the fracturing of the fall. Is that so? Now we are stuck in ourselves. And so Father George is going to talk about what we’re really talking about is the sinful attitude of putting myself first. And when I do that, everything gets loud because of because of that.
[19:18 –> 19:46] And, and so I’m disconnected and not being able to be kind of in that interior space of stillness and in silence with the Lord. So what happens is, is father Mark, you mentioned that it’s it’s actually accepting reality, like I’m actually, over all of my weakness over reality. I’m actually powerless. And the only thing I can do is live in right relationship with God that I’m actually little poor and actually, like.
[19:46 –> 20:18] That’s what sonship is. I am just little and poor, and I need to be taking care of and self reliance doesn’t work. So focus. It doesn’t work. Self-Protection or me asserting my ego and my giftedness doesn’t work. It’s actually makes a lot of noise kicks up a lot of noise and is exhausting. So what happens is I can just be little and poor and be like, oh no, when all this comes up to to to step into the place of, of ego driven stuff and self-protection and self like proving myself, I don’t need to do that.
[20:18 –> 20:43] I just need to live in reality that I’m actually really little and poor, and I have a father who’s going to take care of me. And that’s why I put under this like the gift of poverty, like it’s okay to be poor and I can fight the movement to grasp and take care of myself or clothe myself, and I can stay poor, and I don’t have to rely on my ego or my self to do it right.
[20:43 –> 21:07] And so I think that’s just like the I think the daily decision is to notice when I am asserting myself or I’m acting from a safe, like from a, from a place of pride or, or selfishness in a lot of ways. Notice that. But also know, like I, I need to let go of my self and my need to prove and to fix and to do it myself.
[21:07 –> 21:29] And I can actually just be a poor little beloved son who has a father that will take care of him. And that will provide for him that loves him unconditionally. I don’t have to do it all by myself. So I actually think poverty is in medicine and and I mean, again, it just it’s also there’s a lot of medicines that, that, that it kind of an antidote to pride.
[21:29 –> 21:49] But I think poverty is, is a big one. So like this is perfect. I consider like we’ll just call him Frank. Frank the Paschal, it shows up and he is super talented and he was a college athlete. He got straight A’s. He’s like killing it. He looks good, acts good, and he and he joins. Religious life in discernment is good discernment.
[21:49 –> 22:12] But the reality of like and I’m not really talking about a particular partiality but like a combination of him but like and so this is like what he through the gift of is conversion. He’s recognizing that like maybe like being good at everything, performing and like myself being at the center is not what I want to do is not how I want to live because it’s disrupting.
[22:12 –> 22:25] He’s like, it’s not relaxing like possums is not fun when you’re performing the whole time. And there’s an effect of like, oh man, I’m always on. I always have to do something. I’m scanning the room to make sure I’m doing the right thing, and I, I messed up and now I’m beat myself up. Like we just feel all that.
[22:26 –> 22:45] And that’s the self-importance. That’s like the self-importance being activated, self-reliance being activated. Because I want to be a good postulant, and I want to do exactly what Father Angelus asked me to do. And I want to be religious, and I want to take vows, and I want to do all this right. And so that feels like, man, that when the self is at the center of that, it’s exhausting.
[22:46 –> 23:03] Right. And then as a, as a form later, I’m looking, you’re like, man, I feel like it’s a generational, you know, there’s some generational bondage in every family. Like I feel like our Franciscan family or even our CFR family. Like there’s generational bondage around performance and perfection. Like, man, I just got to be good. I gotta look good.
[23:03 –> 23:18] I got to do the right thing. I got a fast well and pray well, and I got to do all this stuff and the attitudes of the patient. You just see it. Every single one of them, every single one of them has this sense that I have to perform to, to be loved and to be a part of things and to be accepted.
[23:18 –> 23:36] Right. So, as father Mark made to your question, like, but at some point in passion, see if you if you let those walls go down, you’re going to find that there’s a reason I’ve been performing and living that way for a long time. There’s something in my story that threatened my dignity, that threatened my worth, that threatened my the truth of who I was.
[23:36 –> 23:56] And so I had to make a decision. Well, I don’t want to feel that way, which is awful or insecure or not good enough or alone. And so I’ve been performing for so long. Right. But the cool thing about it is that when they accept their story, when they accept, like, yeah, there was something difficult that happened to me and then I can accept that maybe I don’t have to perform.
[23:56 –> 24:20] They don’t have to be the center of attention, and I don’t have to be good at everything. And I start to accept that. Then, I can start to live in a deeper place of reality and truth. So we in, you know, as failures in the formation culture. But the Hermetic, the lens by which we see formation is, is self knowledge of my story, of me performing leads to self-acceptance, which means I can take a deep breath and be like, you know what?
[24:20 –> 24:42] Yeah, I had some of that in my life has been really difficult. And I’ve I’ve learned to live this way. And I was wounded in a particular way. And my performance has served me significantly to get me to this place. Okay. But self-acceptance and the invitation is like, what does it mean, then, to surrender that all that, that that thing that I learned to protect and self-reliance perform.
[24:42 –> 24:58] Right. And so it’s beautiful because then they can come out of it and say, well, what if other decisions point is right? Well, what if I’m a son and that means I can be weak and I can make mistakes and I can be poor, and I don’t have to, like, give a killer homily every time I preach. And I can start just to be like, wow, okay, I can just be myself.
[24:58 –> 25:22] And if if it’s not perfect, you sound perfect. If I make mistakes, it’s if it’s not exactly how I dreamed it would be, that’s okay. Right. And you kind of learn and after that acceptance happens, you learn a deeper freedom in the truth of who I am, which is a poor son and a loved son, rather than one that has to keep being perfect and do everything on my own to to be able to have a place in the world.
[25:22 –> 25:25] And so. Okay.
[25:25 –> 25:41] You know, one of the things I don’t, I don’t remember if you said it exactly, but one of the things that father highlights is, the relationship between self love and receiving corrections. You know, I certainly, I don’t know,
[25:41 –> 25:48] I don’t know what that looks like for laypeople, to be honest. I know that some of it at work,
[25:48 –> 25:54] And I’m sure, like, you know, it’s in a marriage or something like that, too. Sure.
[25:54 –> 26:17] it wasn’t just shiny, but it was like a cool article I remember reading and it talked about how it. It’s just kind of funny because it’s like everybody, everybody admits that they’re like sinners. Everybody knows that they’re imperfect. But, like, it’s amazing how, how if you were defensive, we can get in either self-protection or in attacking other people.
[26:17 –> 26:40] What other people like, see it as well, or they can sort of like say something about it or they like, allows it to, like, be revealed that it sees it. And I do think that then like, there’s just a certain, maybe simplicity that kind of comes when it’s like, okay, yeah, you know what? Like, I’m, I’m a person on a journey.
[26:40 –> 27:03] I’m loved in it. That’s okay. I’m not perfect. Jesus actually doesn’t expect me to be perfect right now. And you know what? Sometimes, like my imperfection and even my sinfulness is going to affect others. Hurt others, or be visible to others.
[27:03 –> 27:31] And sometimes people are going to, like, act from that place. And, you know, sometimes they’re going to, you know, like, respond to it in a way that’s not great and healthy. And it kind of hurts. But but there can be a certain simplicity, I guess, if it’s if it’s like we give ourselves permission to be if you are poor and to be, a work in progress to, to not be able to fix ourselves, to be seen by others and like, admit that they can, like, really see us.
[27:31 –> 27:55] Is that a little bit of the movement, bro? Absolutely. I, I’m really grateful for that. And and the only thing I add to that is it ushered. When we can live like that, it ushers in, a security, like a security that it’s actually I don’t need. Like, I know who I am in the eyes of God and and in my day, like the places of my identity.
[27:55 –> 28:14] And so therefore, like, I’m not constantly searching and my pride’s not always wounded because I’m trying to, like, trying to figure out who I am and need others. I’m not needy. And so then I have this inner security that I can have be stable in the Lord, and I can be like, okay, yeah, I can be humble and poor, like, okay.
[28:14 –> 28:36] Yeah, this happened. I don’t I don’t need you to understand or I don’t need to defend myself. Yeah. I’m weak. I made a mistake or this got comment or I got a correction. Okay. Yeah. Like, you know, it it it we can just be secure and then we remain. There’s this, stability and calmness that can can remain.
[28:36 –> 29:01] And so therefore, I can live life not constantly robbed or hijacked or kind of uprooted, but I can remain calm and secure and safe in the presence of the Lord in the face of all these different people or places or things that constantly kind of wound my pride. So I love that. And then I think this is where, the silence.
[29:01 –> 29:29] We can we can calm the ego or silence the ego, and then I can drink in like that. The different, the deeper parts of my spiritual life or my relationship with the Lord. And because that, that that I give, that I give that the place of power rather than, than other people or or my even my ego. The the interesting thing about though, when we’re so protected and so reliant and so like amped up living that way, there’s no room for curiosity.
[29:29 –> 29:52] Which means like, there’s no room to like, consider like why I’m acting the way I’m acting or why I’m feeling the way I’m feeling right. So the reality of those walls can come down a little bit, and then I can it can silence that part of my the intensity of that. Then I can say with the Lord, or I can say with people who love me and start to be aware of like, oh man, I’m curious about why that that brother triggers the heck out of me.
[29:52 –> 30:21] Or I’m curious about why I always get insecure when I do this, or I’m curious about, like, why I’m anxious after this meeting. Right? So you can start to think, because curiosity is the key to healing, right? Is the key to being like, why am I feeling the way I’m feeling? What’s happening? Why is it that person that always does this like, but if you’re self protected, you’re going to like go after people and blame people and criticize people and make them the problem when you’re like, well, hey dude, like I’m on armed, right?
[30:21 –> 30:39] And so I think it’s like when you when things can settle down, then we can get to the places where we can start to be curious and ask questions, which means that Jesus can come and can walk that journey with me of like, why? Why is this happening? Why do I show up this way? Why this brother, that brother or my wife or husband or my wife or whatever that may be?
[30:39 –> 30:57] I think another thing, just real quick, as far as, like naming, like when we silence, self-love or silence the ego. I think repentance is also a part of this, right? Because pride is the root, like is the root of sin. And that’s what, Father Basil talks about. So it’s like self-love is the root of sin pride.
[30:57 –> 31:19] And so I think when we silence self-love or silence the ego, it’s a way of repenting. It’s a way of saying no, like Lord I. And again, in a dialog, Lord, I am sorry for being self-reliant and looking at myself and relying on myself. I am sorry for getting stuck and and and and it does violence to us.
[31:19 –> 31:42] Right. And so I think it could be really beautiful as a, as a concrete step is just to learn how to be repentant in a new way of the, of the way that our ego does take control or our self-love or self focus. Self reliance takes control. And I think we can silence if we if we take that to confession and like not, I’m like, father, I’m sorry for my ego.
[31:42 –> 32:03] I’m sorry for how this manifests. And I wonder if we be can we become more and more repentant in that then I think I think, I mean, conversion happens. Healing happens. And then I think, again, this interior place of stillness and stability comes with the Lord.
[32:03 –> 32:10] So what’s the, like? What’s the prayer? How do we bring Jesus into this? Like, what’s the,
[32:10 –> 32:32] What’s the destination? We’re trying to have the good shepherd, you know, lead us to here. That’s not self-love. Yeah. I mean, father, just if you if you want to step in here as well. But I think, again, all these are connected. I like all these different ways. I think the green pastures and the restful waters is, Is that this?
[32:32 –> 33:09] Instead of surrendering to myself or like, choosing myself in the present moment, I choose to be a little poor son of the father, like the green Pastures is is to say yes or no to ego and yes to being taken care of, yes to being poor and humble and open, instead of reliance, instead of self-reliance. So I, I do think the green pastures are restful water is, is is like this, this movement of being self-focused to father focused or Jesus focused.
[33:09 –> 33:33] And that’s I think that’s the movement of the spiritual life. But I do think it’s like it’s we don’t have to do it. And to be self-focused and to to let our pride take over. But I can be humble and little and poor before father, who’s going to provide and take care of me and kind of ultimately be my stability.
[33:33 –> 33:56] Yeah. And I think this shift like it’s, it’s the self-protection so freely and so focus is like at the service of something. And what it’s serving is my insecurity. And my question is like, do you love me and am I enough. Right. And so the the idea of like, if that can fall, like what I really want to know is that I’m loved.
[33:56 –> 34:17] And can can in prayer if I, if I let these things calm down enough, can I see someone looking back at me in prayer and they tell me that I love you, I see you, I, I know what, I know what you need, I know I know your heart’s desire and you don’t have to perform and work so dang hard for love.
[34:17 –> 34:33] Are you like, wow, okay. And if I can be loved, then I can start to understand the deeper identity questions, the deeper things that like, man, okay, even in my week, you mean I don’t have to protect myself from my addiction? I mean, I don’t have to protect myself from the places that I don’t like. No, I love you there, too.
[34:33 –> 34:56] I see you there. You mean I don’t have to protect myself from a difficult family situation? Or am I like, yeah, I see you, I love you, right? And so it’s, at the end of the day, the simplicity. Like, I love your move to simplicity for the mark, Mary. Like, I’m performing so hard for a reason. Like, okay, maybe just a good question is, like, what are you working so hard for?
[34:56 –> 35:15] Like, why are you okay? Maybe it’s because I just know that I want to be. I mean, again, at the end of the day, that’s the answer to everything is just like, I want to be loved. I want to be known. I want to be important. I want to matter. Like, well, what if you just stopped for a second and let me look at you and say, you matter to me?
[35:15 –> 35:43] Like I love you. Even on all those places you’re trying to hide and protect. You, like build a fortress around. And then if that love penetrates because of the silence entering in, then it’s like, well, maybe I could live in a different way. And if I get up every day and show up to prayer and show to my interior reality of seeing the face who loves me and seeing the face you says, or the person who says, you matter me like, and you don’t have to perform like, whoa, okay, what if that could be true just for today?
[35:43 –> 35:59] You’re like, okay, I’ll try again. And all of a sudden you’re like, living in a different way and all those and all the like, the working so hard, the silences and settles down and you’re like, man, okay, maybe I can let myself be loved.
[35:59 –> 36:18] And I, I heard a parent talk, a dad talk about his kids the other day, and he said something along the lines of like, like my. Yeah. Like my love for my kids is always, like, maxed out. Like it’s always. It’s always turned, like, all the way up. And so and it’s and it’s kind of reflecting on they’re still young like that.
[36:18 –> 36:45] They’re going to have these experiences that that kids have of, you know, like thinking, a certain success is going to add to their being loved or a certain failure is going to like, pull from it. And like, with this dad or just saying it’s just like, yeah, but like I, I understand how that happens, but at the same like I want them to know that like it’s always like it’s yeah, it’s always Max that when I like, I throw away the key like it’s not, you know what I mean?
[36:45 –> 37:05] Like it’s not, it’s not going to go anywhere other than, like, totally and completely and forever, you know, and maybe that’s like a little bit of where we can find like the ultimate safety and protection and sort of identity. And this is, you know, from the baptismal waters as the father says, like, it’s my beloved son with who I.
[37:05 –> 37:23] Well, please, just knowing that like his love for us is always maxed out and, absolutely. And then and then asking for the grace to live kind of more and more from that place and discern from that place and to, like, respond from that place.
[37:23 –> 37:46] Is that kind of the idea? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And again, I love how we’re anchoring it. And I instead of like our own self-made identity, it’s the identity of the father. And just continued like, I think it’s an identity, the medicine, his identity, especially in this, in this, in this context and, the stillness and and and rest that can come in because we’re beloved sons.
[37:46 –> 38:06] I just think it’s real. And that’s the silence we long for. I think that that that plays great. Well, thanks, everybody for listening. Thanks for being with us on the journey. Can you close this with prayer for the angels? Yeah. In the name of the father and the son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Heavenly father, we come before you in such great gratitude for the gift of these episodes on Silent Sender.
[38:06 –> 38:30] And Lord, we do repent of of our self, all the self that gets in the way, all the self focus, all the self, inordinate self love, and particularly the self-protection and self-reliance. Lord, what if there could be a grace today for all of us to experience the deeper surrender of that, and an opportunity to receive all your love and your hope?
[38:30 –> 38:39] Your Providence that cares for us deeply, and your heart that’s constantly poured out for us fully and extravagantly.
[38:39 –> 38:46] In our repentance for every day, we ask that that makes room for more of you and more of your love. Father.
[38:47 –> 39:12] We pray this Jesus in your name. Amen. Amen. Thanks guys for being on the journey. That little, little, little stop in the silence. It’s beautiful. Yeah. That’s repentance. Yeah, this is great. It seems like a great book too. Yeah. It’s. No, it’s awesome. All right. And we’ll see you next month. I mean, we’ll see you next week. I don’t know what we’re going to be talking about.
[39:12 –> 39:22] We might continue this. We might do something else, but we’ll we’ll let you know. Can I just say to me, it was great to be a part of things today, even with a small power hiccup,
[39:22 –> 39:24] All right. Bye, everybody. Peace.
[39:24 –> 39:29] Poco. Our poco bombs are. You got so much pedigree. Nothing. You know that we
Key Takeaways
- Self-love, in this context, means an inordinate love of self. Not healthy self-respect, but the disordered self-protection and self-reliance that flares up whenever our ego feels threatened.
- Underneath self-protection is fear, not arrogance. Most people don’t defend themselves out of pride in a boastful sense, but out of a quiet fear that if they stop performing, they’ll cease to matter.
- Self-reliance and self-protection are “cousins.” When we’re hurt or criticized, we tend to either withdraw into self-defense or attack others, both rooted in protecting our own image.
- Pride is described as the root of sin. Naming and repenting of self-love, self-reliance, and self-protection is itself an act of ongoing conversion.
- Poverty is medicine for pride. Accepting that we are “little and poor,” dependent on the Father rather than on our own performance, frees us from the exhausting work of proving ourselves.
- Curiosity replaces defensiveness once the noise settles. When we’re not busy protecting ourselves, we can start asking why we react the way we do, which opens the door to healing.
- The destination is not self-improvement, but security in being loved. The friars describe the Father’s love as constant and complete, never something we have to win through good behavior.
What This Means for Prayer and Daily Life
Notice when you’re defending yourself. The next time you feel the urge to explain, justify, or prove yourself after a correction or a hurt, pause before you respond. Ask honestly: what am I protecting right now?
Bring that moment to prayer instead of only processing it internally. Rather than replaying the conversation in your head, tell Jesus what got stirred up: “Lord, I felt exposed. I felt like I had to defend myself. I don’t want to live from that place.” Let Him meet the fear underneath the reaction.
Practice receiving correction without over-explaining. This doesn’t mean ignoring real faults or refusing to grow. It means resisting the urge to protect your image the moment someone points something out, and instead staying grounded in the truth that your worth was never dependent on being right.
Return, again and again, to the truth of being a beloved son or daughter. The friars describe a father whose love for his children is “always maxed out.” Let that truth settle into the places where you’re still working hard to be loved, and let prayer become less about managing how you appear and more about simply being with the One who already sees you fully and loves you completely.FAQ Section: Silence of Memory
The friars use the phrase to describe a disordered, inordinate love of self not healthy self-worth, but the self-protection, self-reliance, and self-focus that surface when our ego feels threatened or hurt.
According to the friars, self-protection is rooted less in arrogance and more in fear specifically the fear that if we stop performing or defending ourselves, we will cease to matter or be loved.
The friars describe pride and self-reliance as the root of sin and a major source of interior “noise.” When we’re focused on protecting or proving ourselves, it becomes difficult to rest in silence or communion with God.
The friars point to the gift of poverty. Accepting that we are “little and poor” and dependent on the Father, rather than on our own strength, performance, or self-reliance.
The episode invites listeners to notice when they’re defending or asserting themselves, name that pattern honestly (including in prayer or confession), and return to the truth that they are loved sons and daughters who don’t have to earn their place.
No. The friars aren’t describing self-neglect or avoiding growth. The invitation is to stop relying on self-protection and performance as the source of security, and instead receive correction, weakness, and imperfection from a place of already being loved.
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Searching and Fearless (Rewind)
God wants to go back into our lives and our stories — and start speaking light, redemption and truth over that. There’s the need for us to have a radical opening of our hearts and honesty to what really is happening in our lives. We have to be…
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Hope For Everything
We cannot grow in freedom unless we grow in faith, Hope, and love — that’s the recipe for freedom. Faith, Hope, and love are the three theological virtues that connect us to God. As Christians, we believe in God, hope for everything from Him, and want to love Him with all our hearts and love our neighbors. This episode is the third part of…
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Words and the Word
Have you ever thought about how much power your words actually carry?
In this special 300th episode, the friars are joined by Fr. Gregory Pine, OP, to talk about words, speech, and the deeper invitation behind how we communicate. Drawing from his book Training the Tongue, Fr. Gregory reflects on how our words are not just sounds or information, they can build communion, reveal the heart, wound, heal, bless, and bring us closer to one another.
Together, they explore how speech opens the door to real encounter: with God, with others, and even with ourselves. From the voice of the Good Shepherd to the Word made flesh, this conversation invites us to see language as something sacred, a gift meant not only to avoid sin, but to grow in love, truth, and deeper relationship.
Join us as we learn to listen more deeply, speak more faithfully, and let our words become places where the Word can be known and loved.
