[00:00:00 –> 00:00:01] What’s up, everybody?
[00:00:01 –> 00:00:01] Father Innocent here,
[00:00:01 –> 00:00:04] and I just wanted to pause and say thank you
[00:00:04 –> 00:00:06] for all who make “Poco a Poco” podcast possible
[00:00:06 –> 00:00:08] through your prayers and your generosity.
[00:00:08 –> 00:00:10] Every episode we share,
[00:00:10 –> 00:00:12] every person reached is because of you.
[00:00:12 –> 00:00:14] If you feel moved to join our mission as a monthly supporter
[00:00:14 –> 00:00:17] or increase your gift, we’d be so grateful.
[00:00:17 –> 00:00:19] Your support helps us lead more souls
[00:00:19 –> 00:00:21] to encounter Christ little by little.
[00:00:21 –> 00:00:23] You can give at spiritjuice.org
[00:00:23 –> 00:00:24] or through the link in the show notes.
[00:00:24 –> 00:00:26] Thank you for being part of our mission.
[00:00:26 –> 00:00:27] God bless you all.
[00:00:27 –> 00:00:29] (upbeat music begins)
[00:00:29 –> 00:00:31] You’re listening to the “Poco a Poco” podcast
[00:00:31 –> 00:00:34] sponsored by Spirit Juice Studios.
[00:00:34 –> 00:00:36] ♪ Poco a poco vamos a llegar ♪
[00:00:36 –> 00:00:38] ♪ Somos peregrinos and you know that’s who we are ♪
[00:00:38 –> 00:00:40] ♪ We make our way ♪
[00:00:40 –> 00:00:42] Hey, I’m Father Mark-Mary.
[00:00:42 –> 00:00:44] Hey everybody, I’m Father Innocent.
[00:00:44 –> 00:00:45] Hey, I’m Father PT.
[00:00:46 –> 00:00:49] And this is the “Poco a Poco” podcast.
[00:00:51 –> 00:00:56] And we’re gonna have a 30 to 35 minute episode.
[00:00:57 –> 00:00:59] Just to name it from the start.
[00:00:59 –> 00:01:01] Just to say that, which is all right.
[00:01:03 –> 00:01:04] What are we gonna talk about?
[00:01:04 –> 00:01:09] So anyway, I can’t find my, I prepped four episodes.
[00:01:12 –> 00:01:13] How’s that going for you, bro?
[00:01:13 –> 00:01:15] And we have done two of them.
[00:01:15 –> 00:01:16] Oh, have we?
[00:01:18 –> 00:01:21] We have done one of them.
[00:01:21 –> 00:01:22] Okay.
[00:01:22 –> 00:01:24] We have done one of them.
[00:01:24 –> 00:01:26] I studied the show notes like crazy
[00:01:26 –> 00:01:28] for like weeks before this, bro.
[00:01:28 –> 00:01:29] I’m proud of you.
[00:01:29 –> 00:01:29] (Father Innocent laughs)
[00:01:29 –> 00:01:32] They only came to you a couple days ago.
[00:01:32 –> 00:01:33] I’m not sure how that happened.
[00:01:35 –> 00:01:38] This is random, but I was in an airport recently,
[00:01:38 –> 00:01:42] and there was like two people in the airport
[00:01:42 –> 00:01:43] who like had just met or something like that.
[00:01:43 –> 00:01:46] One of them was hurrying to their flight
[00:01:46 –> 00:01:48] and the guy was like, “Oh, don’t worry,
[00:01:48 –> 00:01:50] they’re not gonna leave without you.”
[00:01:50 –> 00:01:51] Hmm.
[00:01:51 –> 00:01:54] And I thought, “This is the one place.
[00:01:54 –> 00:01:55] This is one of the places
[00:01:55 –> 00:01:57] where they will definitely leave without you.”
[00:01:57 –> 00:02:00] (Father Innocent laughs)
[00:02:00 –> 00:02:04] So anyway, hopefully the guy made his flight.
[00:02:04 –> 00:02:08] But in the airport, they’ll definitely leave without you.
[00:02:09 –> 00:02:11] 100%.
[00:02:11 –> 00:02:14] At the friary, we will often leave without you.
[00:02:14 –> 00:02:15] Yes.
[00:02:16 –> 00:02:17] That’s a little bit friar culture.
[00:02:17 –> 00:02:20] I think it starts in initial formation.
[00:02:20 –> 00:02:22] Hey, we set the time to go,
[00:02:23 –> 00:02:25] and this place like to come back,
[00:02:25 –> 00:02:29] and if you’re not there, we’re gonna start.
[00:02:29 –> 00:02:30] Yeah.
[00:02:30 –> 00:02:31] Or I think like even with
[00:02:31 –> 00:02:32] like some of the prayer schedule,
[00:02:32 –> 00:02:34] it’s like morning prayer, whatever.
[00:02:34 –> 00:02:35] It’s like, “Hey, we’re gonna,
[00:02:35 –> 00:02:37] this is the time it starts.”
[00:02:39 –> 00:02:41] I think I’m with you there, bro,
[00:02:41 –> 00:02:43] but what I struggle with is that,
[00:02:43 –> 00:02:47] like the guy who’s like always late and he’s prayer leader,
[00:02:47 –> 00:02:50] and it’s always like a couple minutes past,
[00:02:50 –> 00:02:51] and you’re waiting,
[00:02:51 –> 00:02:55] and like you’re not the superior so you can’t like jump in.
[00:02:55 –> 00:02:57] I’m like, “Gosh, man, come on.
[00:02:57 –> 00:02:59] We said we’re gonna start at 7:30.”
[00:02:59 –> 00:03:01] Like, anyway, I struggle with that.
[00:03:01 –> 00:03:03] I think we should be prompt as well.
[00:03:03 –> 00:03:05] That gets me going.
[00:03:05 –> 00:03:08] It’s not like we’re changing the schedule every day.
[00:03:08 –> 00:03:08] It’s not like it’s like,
[00:03:08 –> 00:03:10] guess what time we got prayer today,
[00:03:10 –> 00:03:11] or you put it up on the,
[00:03:11 –> 00:03:13] we have prayer every day at 7:30.
[00:03:13 –> 00:03:17] Like why can’t we just figure it out
[00:03:17 –> 00:03:20] to be here on time at 7:25 or 7:26?
[00:03:20 –> 00:03:22] It’s not that big of an ask.
[00:03:22 –> 00:03:24] Or even, too, like at a house meeting, you say,
[00:03:24 –> 00:03:27] “Hey, guys, we’re gonna leave at this time.”
[00:03:27 –> 00:03:29] And like I make sure, “Is everybody clear on that?
[00:03:29 –> 00:03:32] Like I need like confirmation.”
[00:03:32 –> 00:03:33] And he goes, “Yeah, yeah, yeah.”
[00:03:33 –> 00:03:36] Then sure enough, where’s brother so-and-so?
[00:03:36 –> 00:03:39] It’s 8:45, we said we’re gonna leave.
[00:03:39 –> 00:03:41] “Well, let’s go, he’ll figure it out.”
[00:03:41 –> 00:03:42] You know?
[00:03:43 –> 00:03:46] And so yeah, life happens.
[00:03:46 –> 00:03:49] There’s like sometimes like biology happens, guys have,
[00:03:49 –> 00:03:51] like I understand that.
[00:03:51 –> 00:03:53] But if we can like limit those things
[00:03:53 –> 00:03:54] and just like understand like,
[00:03:54 –> 00:03:57] hey, I got to be at this place this time, that’s helpful.
[00:03:57 –> 00:03:59] That’s it.
[00:03:59 –> 00:04:00] Thank you.
[00:04:00 –> 00:04:02] I didn’t know I was going to be pressing on something there.
[00:04:02 –> 00:04:03] Oh yeah.
[00:04:05 –> 00:04:07] I run a, I mean, with that kind of stuff.
[00:04:07 –> 00:04:09] Yes.
[00:04:09 –> 00:04:11] I run a pretty tight ship, I think.
[00:04:12 –> 00:04:14] When it’s time to start, it’s time to start.
[00:04:16 –> 00:04:20] Here’s another question and then we’ll get into it soon.
[00:04:22 –> 00:04:24] And I’ve learned that this question
[00:04:24 –> 00:04:26] has a variety of answers.
[00:04:26 –> 00:04:27] When you’re getting on a flight,
[00:04:29 –> 00:04:33] when’s the last time you check your seat number?
[00:04:34 –> 00:04:36] The last time?
[00:04:36 –> 00:04:38] Like that you look at like your ticket
[00:04:38 –> 00:04:40] to see what your seat is.
[00:04:42 –> 00:04:44] I’m in the aisle like walking in.
[00:04:45 –> 00:04:46] Like so like.
[00:04:46 –> 00:04:48] No, like you could be,
[00:04:48 –> 00:04:53] you’ve just arrived at the airport.
[00:04:54 –> 00:04:55] Maybe not.
[00:04:55 –> 00:04:58] Like you could be back at home.
[00:04:58 –> 00:05:00] Like when is the last time you’re like, okay,
[00:05:01 –> 00:05:06] whatever it is, 25B or C?
[00:05:07 –> 00:05:09] So like not quite like I’m walking,
[00:05:09 –> 00:05:11] not quite like I’m going on the plane
[00:05:11 –> 00:05:14] and like I’m looking at the thing
[00:05:14 –> 00:05:15] to see where the seat number is.
[00:05:15 –> 00:05:18] Last time you kind of like check like which one is yours,
[00:05:18 –> 00:05:19] like on whatever you have.
[00:05:19 –> 00:05:20] Yeah, that’s what I’m saying,
[00:05:20 –> 00:05:24] like in the aisle walking in, like I look, okay, I’m 25A.
[00:05:24 –> 00:05:26] Then I put it away.
[00:05:26 –> 00:05:27] And then I look up top of it.
[00:05:27 –> 00:05:28] Like you just got in the plane?
[00:05:28 –> 00:05:29] I just got in the plane.
[00:05:29 –> 00:05:32] And that’s probably, like besides like checking in,
[00:05:32 –> 00:05:36] that’s the only, like checking in is like when I confirm
[00:05:36 –> 00:05:38] like what seat I’m in, that’s what I look at.
[00:05:38 –> 00:05:39] Like cool, because I like window seats.
[00:05:39 –> 00:05:40] That’s one time.
[00:05:40 –> 00:05:42] And then the second time I look at it
[00:05:42 –> 00:05:44] is when I’m like in the aisle
[00:05:44 –> 00:05:46] actually about to get to my seat.
[00:05:47 –> 00:05:48] Father Innocent?
[00:05:51 –> 00:05:52] I think it’s similar.
[00:05:52 –> 00:05:54] I think it’s similar.
[00:05:56 –> 00:05:58] Yeah, I’m not too worried about it
[00:05:58 –> 00:06:00] until like I like walk into the plane and like,
[00:06:00 –> 00:06:01] oh, where am I at?
[00:06:01 –> 00:06:04] And usually when I’m with other people,
[00:06:04 –> 00:06:07] someone always asks me like, “Hey, what seat are you?”
[00:06:07 –> 00:06:10] But other than that, I’m not really too concerned
[00:06:10 –> 00:06:13] until I’m like walking in the plane
[00:06:13 –> 00:06:15] and probably like right when I get in,
[00:06:15 –> 00:06:17] I’ll be like, “Oh, what row am I?”
[00:06:18 –> 00:06:22] I think that’s probably pretty consistent.
[00:06:22 –> 00:06:24] What about you, seat boy?
[00:06:26 –> 00:06:27] I’m checking it all the time.
[00:06:27 –> 00:06:28] All the time.
[00:06:28 –> 00:06:30] I’m 30 minutes from landing
[00:06:30 –> 00:06:32] and I’m confirming my seat again.
[00:06:32 –> 00:06:33] That’s not exactly true. (Father PT laughs)
[00:06:33 –> 00:06:36] But like I just learned that there’s some people,
[00:06:36 –> 00:06:37] so I think probably what you guys do
[00:06:37 –> 00:06:39] is probably the vast majority.
[00:06:39 –> 00:06:41] I bet 80% do something similar to you.
[00:06:41 –> 00:06:44] Maybe like a little lower than 80%.
[00:06:44 –> 00:06:46] There’s some people who like, they check it, yeah,
[00:06:46 –> 00:06:48] like when they, whatever, get in the car
[00:06:48 –> 00:06:50] or something like that and they never look at it again.
[00:06:52 –> 00:06:53] I think it’s probably good to check it
[00:06:53 –> 00:06:58] once like you’re through the security or whatever,
[00:06:58 –> 00:06:59] or through the check-in thing,
[00:06:59 –> 00:07:01] because they might change it,
[00:07:01 –> 00:07:03] which is what happened to me yesterday.
[00:07:03 –> 00:07:06] But I’m checking it, man,
[00:07:06 –> 00:07:08] so this is a little bit of my mind worms,
[00:07:08 –> 00:07:09] but I might check it four or five times
[00:07:09 –> 00:07:12] walking down the aisle and then.
[00:07:12 –> 00:07:13] Oh, what’s going on there?
[00:07:13 –> 00:07:16] Like what’s in your psyche?
[00:07:16 –> 00:07:16] Yeah, what’s?
[00:07:16 –> 00:07:19] I just don’t trust my ability to like remember it.
[00:07:20 –> 00:07:22] It’s weird, that’s all it is.
[00:07:22 –> 00:07:24] Have you ever sat in the wrong space, the wrong side?
[00:07:24 –> 00:07:25] Does that make sense?
[00:07:25 –> 00:07:26] I have, I have,
[00:07:26 –> 00:07:29] and it feels like the worst thing in the world.
[00:07:29 –> 00:07:30] No, I’m with you.
[00:07:30 –> 00:07:32] But it wasn’t because I wasn’t like attentive.
[00:07:32 –> 00:07:37] It was like I did my whole anxious thing
[00:07:37 –> 00:07:39] and still sat in the wrong seat.
[00:07:41 –> 00:07:46] Yeah, I’ve seen the people like, “Hey, I’ve got 17A.”
[00:07:46 –> 00:07:47] “No, I have 17A.”
[00:07:47 –> 00:07:49] Like, “Oh, I’m sorry actually I got 18A.”
[00:07:49 –> 00:07:51] like I’ve seen that whole interaction.
[00:07:51 –> 00:07:53] And yeah, it happens, but.
[00:07:53 –> 00:07:54] It’s a rough one.
[00:07:54 –> 00:07:57] Yeah, but like for me,
[00:07:57 –> 00:07:58] like there’s no point when I’m sitting in the gate,
[00:07:58 –> 00:08:00] like checking my seat.
[00:08:00 –> 00:08:02] And okay, that’s a good point that it could change,
[00:08:02 –> 00:08:06] but by the time, like something should happen where,
[00:08:06 –> 00:08:08] I don’t know, if it’s printed, maybe they let you know,
[00:08:08 –> 00:08:10] they ask you to come to the boarding.
[00:08:10 –> 00:08:11] I mean, they ask you to come to the gate
[00:08:11 –> 00:08:12] to get a new boarding pass.
[00:08:12 –> 00:08:15] But I feel like, yeah, there’s no point to it
[00:08:15 –> 00:08:17] until I get closer to my seat
[00:08:17 –> 00:08:20] or like when I need to figure out when to sit
[00:08:20 –> 00:08:22] to check the boarding pass for it.
[00:08:22 –> 00:08:24] So, but I also recognize
[00:08:24 –> 00:08:26] I’m a little bit of a different traveler than most people.
[00:08:26 –> 00:08:28] Not most people, but like I’m super laid back.
[00:08:30 –> 00:08:32] Bro, you are super slow when you get off the flight
[00:08:32 –> 00:08:36] and you got to get to customs,
[00:08:36 –> 00:08:38] when every minute is eight minutes.
[00:08:38 –> 00:08:40] Using all the miles over here,
[00:08:40 –> 00:08:42] track star running all over the airport.
[00:08:43 –> 00:08:46] That’s a reference to when I got in trouble with the TSA.
[00:08:46 –> 00:08:47] Yes.
[00:08:47 –> 00:08:51] Bro, he was talking to somebody in the corner
[00:08:51 –> 00:08:53] that wasn’t at like a checkpoint,
[00:08:55 –> 00:08:57] and I just made the very reasonable decision
[00:08:57 –> 00:08:59] to go around him and he got all like,
[00:08:59 –> 00:09:00] “Hey, where are you going?”
[00:09:00 –> 00:09:02] Okay, last question about airplanes,
[00:09:02 –> 00:09:03] airplanes and airport stuff,
[00:09:03 –> 00:09:05] and because I know we’re trying to continue on,
[00:09:05 –> 00:09:09] but like are you guys, this boggles my mind,
[00:09:09 –> 00:09:10] and maybe people are out there like this,
[00:09:10 –> 00:09:12] where you’re getting off the plane.
[00:09:12 –> 00:09:15] Do you, like let’s say you’re row 20,
[00:09:15 –> 00:09:17] are you, once the plane lands, unbuckling your stuff
[00:09:17 –> 00:09:21] and trying to get your stuff out of the upper cabin
[00:09:21 –> 00:09:22] to like stand and wait?
[00:09:22 –> 00:09:23] Or are you sitting in your seat
[00:09:23 –> 00:09:25] allowing things to come to you?
[00:09:26 –> 00:09:27] You know what I mean?
[00:09:27 –> 00:09:29] This is presuming you’re in the aisle.
[00:09:30 –> 00:09:32] Yeah, presuming, or even too,
[00:09:32 –> 00:09:36] like even if you’re in the window, like are you like anxious
[00:09:36 –> 00:09:37] like, I need to get out of the,
[00:09:37 –> 00:09:39] like I need to get out right now into the aisle,
[00:09:39 –> 00:09:40] and as much as you can like to do it.
[00:09:40 –> 00:09:42] So yeah, so I guess presuming that you’re in the aisle,
[00:09:42 –> 00:09:46] are you immediately, like once landing happens,
[00:09:46 –> 00:09:48] to get up even though you know you have 20 rows
[00:09:48 –> 00:09:50] ahead of you that have to get their stuff?
[00:09:51 –> 00:09:52] I’m pretty chill.
[00:09:52 –> 00:09:53] I’m pretty chill when it comes to that.
[00:09:53 –> 00:09:55] But I do gotta say, if people get up
[00:09:55 –> 00:10:00] and like walk the aisle like out of turn,
[00:10:00 –> 00:10:02] like I feel that.
[00:10:02 –> 00:10:06] I’m like, oh man, like I just, that gets me.
[00:10:06 –> 00:10:08] Anyway, there’s a whole lot going on there.
[00:10:08 –> 00:10:10] But it’s just interesting to know
[00:10:10 –> 00:10:11] what kind of triggers your anger
[00:10:11 –> 00:10:13] or triggers something in you,
[00:10:13 –> 00:10:15] and that definitely triggers me.
[00:10:16 –> 00:10:18] That’s funny.
[00:10:18 –> 00:10:21] There’s just not a lot that necessarily we know of
[00:10:21 –> 00:10:22] that triggers Father Innocent,
[00:10:22 –> 00:10:23] so it’s fun to hear some of these.
[00:10:23 –> 00:10:25] (Father Innocent laughs)
[00:10:25 –> 00:10:26] But I’ll say this.
[00:10:26 –> 00:10:28] I’ll give you some details, bro.
[00:10:28 –> 00:10:29] Don’t you worry.
[00:10:29 –> 00:10:33] I feel very, and maybe overly,
[00:10:34 –> 00:10:38] I feel like I’ve come to like a very kind of good place
[00:10:38 –> 00:10:41] around a variety of airport etiquette things.
[00:10:43 –> 00:10:45] So what I would say about this is like,
[00:10:45 –> 00:10:48] I know that there’s a narrative out there being like,
[00:10:48 –> 00:10:50] “What are you in such a hurry about?
[00:10:50 –> 00:10:51] You got all these people to get up.”
[00:10:51 –> 00:10:55] I think it’s very helpful if one person in the row
[00:10:56 –> 00:11:01] does get up and like takes his place like in the aisle
[00:11:02 –> 00:11:06] because that kind of prevents this whole culture of like,
[00:11:06 –> 00:11:09] “Well, it looks like there’s an opening
[00:11:09 –> 00:11:11] for me to sneak ahead.”
[00:11:11 –> 00:11:16] And so if there is somebody who just like takes the role of,
[00:11:16 –> 00:11:18] okay, we’re clearly establishing
[00:11:18 –> 00:11:21] we’re going to be going in row by row order.
[00:11:21 –> 00:11:22] And you know.
[00:11:22 –> 00:11:23] Yeah, I like it.
[00:11:23 –> 00:11:26] Like you like are holding the place of your entire row.
[00:11:28 –> 00:11:30] I think that actually serves a helpful purpose
[00:11:30 –> 00:11:32] even if you’re gonna have to be standing there
[00:11:32 –> 00:11:33] for 10 minutes.
[00:11:35 –> 00:11:36] I see that.
[00:11:36 –> 00:11:38] And also too, like I have,
[00:11:38 –> 00:11:39] like I’m okay with people like,
[00:11:39 –> 00:11:41] “Oh my gosh, I’m missing my connecting flight.
[00:11:41 –> 00:11:42] Like I got to get out of here.”
[00:11:42 –> 00:11:45] Like okay, I’m okay with that too.
[00:11:46 –> 00:11:48] But just like for me,
[00:11:48 –> 00:11:51] and this touches upon like the running through the airport,
[00:11:51 –> 00:11:53] you, Father Mark-Mary, like where’s the fire?
[00:11:53 –> 00:11:53] What’s the rush?
[00:11:53 –> 00:11:55] What do we got to go to?
[00:11:55 –> 00:11:56] Especially if there’s no like,
[00:11:56 –> 00:11:58] “Oh, I got to get out of here.”
[00:11:58 –> 00:12:01] And sometimes there are flights that just take a long time
[00:12:01 –> 00:12:03] because of delays on the other end,
[00:12:03 –> 00:12:05] and you’re just like, I just got to get out of the plane.
[00:12:05 –> 00:12:08] But I just, it touches on something deeper for me
[00:12:08 –> 00:12:10] when it’s like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[00:12:10 –> 00:12:12] Why is everybody pushing right now?
[00:12:12 –> 00:12:13] Like we could just do this as civilized people
[00:12:13 –> 00:12:15] and take our time.
[00:12:15 –> 00:12:17] So.
[00:12:17 –> 00:12:18] Thank you, I agree to that.
[00:12:19 –> 00:12:21] We can be civilized people.
[00:12:21 –> 00:12:25] Last week we were limited men.
[00:12:25 –> 00:12:27] Today we are civilized people.
[00:12:27 –> 00:12:28] (Father Innocent laughs)
[00:12:28 –> 00:12:30] So guys, let’s do this.
[00:12:36 –> 00:12:40] I guess, here’s something that I’m sure
[00:12:40 –> 00:12:45] comes to you guys a lot is both like the struggle
[00:12:47 –> 00:12:49] with gossip and complaining, which are different,
[00:12:49 –> 00:12:50] I understand.
[00:12:51 –> 00:12:54] And so maybe we’ll kind of begin with gossip
[00:12:54 –> 00:12:56] and see if we have enough time to talk about complaining.
[00:12:59 –> 00:13:01] What counsel do you give to people
[00:13:01 –> 00:13:03] who are struggling with gossip?
[00:13:05 –> 00:13:07] Especially in this context where it’s like,
[00:13:07 –> 00:13:08] I work in this place
[00:13:09 –> 00:13:13] and gossip is just kind of what everybody does.
[00:13:15 –> 00:13:17] And so there’s a lot of it that happens
[00:13:17 –> 00:13:19] that’s out of my control.
[00:13:23 –> 00:13:24] Or there’s a lot of it which is just,
[00:13:24 –> 00:13:26] almost like an occasion of sin insofar as like,
[00:13:26 –> 00:13:27] these are my friends, this is what they talk about,
[00:13:27 –> 00:13:30] and they just kind of suck me in again and again and again.
[00:13:30 –> 00:13:33] Like and so this is gossip.
[00:13:33 –> 00:13:35] This can be gossip about the boss.
[00:13:35 –> 00:13:37] This can be gossip about other employees.
[00:13:37 –> 00:13:40] This can be gossip about, I don’t know,
[00:13:40 –> 00:13:42] people who they just don’t really know.
[00:13:42 –> 00:13:44] This can be gossip about students, or patients,
[00:13:44 –> 00:13:47] or parishioners or whatever.
[00:13:49 –> 00:13:53] Like what, I don’t know, what do you guys suggest?
[00:13:58 –> 00:14:02] Yeah, I guess it’s, I don’t know.
[00:14:02 –> 00:14:05] There’s a lot of different ways we can answer this question
[00:14:05 –> 00:14:09] and it might be predictable for me to kind of zoom out
[00:14:09 –> 00:14:12] a bit and just to talk about
[00:14:12 –> 00:14:15] like what’s actually happening, and then with that,
[00:14:17 –> 00:14:20] I don’t know, this sounds intense,
[00:14:20 –> 00:14:23] but like if it’s something like gossip
[00:14:23 –> 00:14:28] or like any kind of, we’ll call it like imperfection
[00:14:30 –> 00:14:32] or like any sin.
[00:14:32 –> 00:14:34] Like for me, like it’s good to zoom out
[00:14:34 –> 00:14:38] and just talk about someone’s experience of discipleship.
[00:14:39 –> 00:14:41] and maybe this is not what you’re going for,
[00:14:41 –> 00:14:43] Father Mark-Mary, meaning that like maybe it’s just
[00:14:43 –> 00:14:45] like the practicals of how like, okay,
[00:14:45 –> 00:14:46] if I get sucked into gossip,
[00:14:46 –> 00:14:49] like how do I navigate that concretely?
[00:14:49 –> 00:14:53] But for me, there always has to be a sense of like,
[00:14:53 –> 00:14:55] what’s happening in my heart?
[00:14:55 –> 00:14:57] What’s happening in my life, my decisions?
[00:14:57 –> 00:15:01] Like all those things should be affected by like my desire
[00:15:01 –> 00:15:06] and my real experience of discipleship in my daily life.
[00:15:08 –> 00:15:10] And if this is something that’s repeated, I’m just like,
[00:15:10 –> 00:15:12] well, like, what is that?
[00:15:12 –> 00:15:12] Right?
[00:15:12 –> 00:15:17] Like what does it mean to actually like live my life
[00:15:18 –> 00:15:21] in my daily experience as a follower of Jesus?
[00:15:21 –> 00:15:24] And again, it sounds intense or even judgmental,
[00:15:24 –> 00:15:25] and I don’t want to come across like that.
[00:15:25 –> 00:15:29] I’m just saying, like being a disciple of Jesus,
[00:15:30 –> 00:15:31] like we act a certain way.
[00:15:31 –> 00:15:33] We have certain behaviors, right,
[00:15:33 –> 00:15:35] that just should reflect that.
[00:15:35 –> 00:15:37] And so I just think it’s good to be like, wow,
[00:15:37 –> 00:15:42] to step back and be like being a disciple of Jesus
[00:15:42 –> 00:15:45] should have an effect on my relationships at work
[00:15:45 –> 00:15:48] and being around like my coworkers and how I speak.
[00:15:49 –> 00:15:52] Is the Lord present to me at that moment or not?
[00:15:52 –> 00:15:56] Like do I have a capacity to live in a certain way
[00:15:56 –> 00:15:59] and to know that my behaviors, my words,
[00:15:59 –> 00:16:02] and anything I’m doing matter?
[00:16:02 –> 00:16:05] Whether it’s like the small things, or the big things,
[00:16:05 –> 00:16:09] or just maybe even living a normal life.
[00:16:09 –> 00:16:11] Like Jesus wants into every part of that.
[00:16:11 –> 00:16:13] And so if there’s a place in my life
[00:16:13 –> 00:16:17] that there’s a constant like imperfection,
[00:16:17 –> 00:16:21] or I just feel my weakness, and I don’t want it.
[00:16:21 –> 00:16:23] If it’s unwanted and I’m like,
[00:16:23 –> 00:16:25] “Man, why do I always do this?”
[00:16:25 –> 00:16:27] I think it could just be good to zoom out
[00:16:27 –> 00:16:30] and say, “Okay, Jesus, like I want you to be there
[00:16:30 –> 00:16:34] or be there with me even if it’s simple.”
[00:16:34 –> 00:16:37] I just think it’s a good place to start.
[00:16:37 –> 00:16:41] Allowing Jesus to have access to all of our relationships,
[00:16:41 –> 00:16:43] all of our imperfections,
[00:16:43 –> 00:16:47] and to note that it’s a worthy conversation
[00:16:47 –> 00:16:50] because Jesus wants our discipleship
[00:16:50 –> 00:16:52] to reach every part of our lives.
[00:16:52 –> 00:16:53] I guess that’s my initial thought.
[00:16:55 –> 00:16:57] Thank you, Father Innocent.
[00:16:58 –> 00:17:00] I guess the question I would ask is like, what’s the why?
[00:17:00 –> 00:17:03] Like why are we like in that space and like what’s going on?
[00:17:03 –> 00:17:07] And sometimes we are innocent bystanders or,
[00:17:07 –> 00:17:08] like you mentioned, Father Mark-Mary,
[00:17:08 –> 00:17:09] it’s like a workplace thing,
[00:17:09 –> 00:17:12] or like a group thing that just gossip always happens.
[00:17:12 –> 00:17:15] This is how we relate, this is just what we do.
[00:17:16 –> 00:17:18] But like why is that just what you do?
[00:17:18 –> 00:17:23] And you as a, whether you’re an active participant
[00:17:23 –> 00:17:26] or not active participant it’s like,
[00:17:26 –> 00:17:28] do you have to be a part of that?
[00:17:28 –> 00:17:32] And I know sometimes it feels like very difficult for us
[00:17:32 –> 00:17:36] because now we think we’re sacrificing relationships,
[00:17:36 –> 00:17:37] and maybe that even is what has to happen.
[00:17:37 –> 00:17:41] But like it’s just difficult that this way of relating
[00:17:41 –> 00:17:43] with my group of friends or these coworkers
[00:17:43 –> 00:17:46] that I feel like I could fit in in the space where we gossip
[00:17:46 –> 00:17:49] and talk about somebody or something, or whatever it is.
[00:17:50 –> 00:17:53] Like I want to make sure I’m connected in this space,
[00:17:53 –> 00:17:55] but I don’t think the Lord wants us to have connectedness
[00:17:55 –> 00:17:56] through like some sort of sinful nature
[00:17:56 –> 00:18:00] or like some sort of like way in which it’s detracting
[00:18:00 –> 00:18:02] from somebody else.
[00:18:02 –> 00:18:03] And this comes back to like,
[00:18:03 –> 00:18:06] am I creating authenticity for a connection?
[00:18:06 –> 00:18:10] And so like is there a way that I can healthfully
[00:18:10 –> 00:18:12] remove myself from the conversation
[00:18:12 –> 00:18:13] while maintaining connection?
[00:18:13 –> 00:18:17] Which I think is deeper, like as a part of what’s going on,
[00:18:17 –> 00:18:20] as far as like the gossip, because it’s a social sin, right?
[00:18:20 –> 00:18:24] And all sin is somewhat, there’s no private sin,
[00:18:24 –> 00:18:26] but like this, I think has a social aspect to it.
[00:18:26 –> 00:18:28] You can’t gossip to yourself, right?
[00:18:28 –> 00:18:30] You need somebody else to gossip with.
[00:18:30 –> 00:18:33] And sometimes like you do need to vent.
[00:18:33 –> 00:18:35] You do need to like get this off your chest,
[00:18:35 –> 00:18:38] but I think maybe it’s like a whole different thing,
[00:18:38 –> 00:18:41] but like when you fall into, yeah, this person’s trash,
[00:18:41 –> 00:18:43] this person, like you start like just like tearing down
[00:18:43 –> 00:18:45] the person, that’s different than saying like,
[00:18:45 –> 00:18:47] “I really struggle with this thing
[00:18:47 –> 00:18:48] that was said at the meeting,
[00:18:48 –> 00:18:50] and I really just, I don’t know what’s going on there
[00:18:50 –> 00:18:52] for me.”
[00:18:52 –> 00:18:53] And so like those are two different ways
[00:18:53 –> 00:18:54] in which you could look at something.
[00:18:54 –> 00:18:56] But going back to the social aspect of it,
[00:18:56 –> 00:18:58] is like what’s feeding this is like,
[00:18:58 –> 00:19:00] this is, I think, the only way I can stay connected
[00:19:00 –> 00:19:03] to this person that I’m in relationship with?
[00:19:03 –> 00:19:07] Or like, is there something deeper happening for my own self
[00:19:07 –> 00:19:08] where I need to tear down this person?
[00:19:08 –> 00:19:12] Or is it something where, yeah,
[00:19:12 –> 00:19:15] like I just like being a part of this group?
[00:19:15 –> 00:19:16] And I think asking like, what’s the why,
[00:19:16 –> 00:19:18] and like being curious about that can help us
[00:19:18 –> 00:19:20] come to the root of like, “Oh yeah,
[00:19:20 –> 00:19:23] I actually just want to be included.”
[00:19:24 –> 00:19:28] And asking for the grace or just being courageous,
[00:19:28 –> 00:19:32] if you will, at times, to step away from that.
[00:19:32 –> 00:19:33] I think it’s tough, but it’s just good,
[00:19:33 –> 00:19:36] because it means just that you’re more yourself.
[00:19:36 –> 00:19:38] And what does stepping away look like sometimes?
[00:19:38 –> 00:19:41] It’s just like by choosing to excuse yourself from the room,
[00:19:41 –> 00:19:44] or choosing not to say something,
[00:19:44 –> 00:19:46] or, yeah, it just looks different, I think,
[00:19:46 –> 00:19:47] in different spaces.
[00:19:48 –> 00:19:50] I don’t think it always means like standing up on a table
[00:19:50 –> 00:19:52] and saying, “We are not going to talk poorly
[00:19:52 –> 00:19:53] about this person.
[00:19:53 –> 00:19:54] Like I refuse.”
[00:19:54 –> 00:19:55] Like, because, okay.
[00:19:55 –> 00:19:56] That’s probably not reality.
[00:19:56 –> 00:19:58] But just like showing through your actions
[00:19:58 –> 00:20:02] that you’re not complicit with what’s happening.
[00:20:02 –> 00:20:05] I think it could be helpful.
[00:20:05 –> 00:20:08] But I don’t, like, we shouldn’t expect to do that tomorrow.
[00:20:08 –> 00:20:10] Like if this has been a habit for us,
[00:20:11 –> 00:20:12] we have to give ourselves grace
[00:20:12 –> 00:20:13] and also invite the Lord just to,
[00:20:13 –> 00:20:14] “Hey, can you give me the strength?
[00:20:14 –> 00:20:16] Because I know this is not pleasing to you,
[00:20:16 –> 00:20:19] and I need the grace and the strength to be able to say no
[00:20:19 –> 00:20:20] when a conversation comes up,
[00:20:20 –> 00:20:23] or to shift the conversation in a different direction,
[00:20:23 –> 00:20:25] or just to do something different,
[00:20:25 –> 00:20:28] because like it doesn’t sit well with my heart.”
[00:20:28 –> 00:20:29] Because I imagine like it’s part of the reason, too,
[00:20:29 –> 00:20:32] you bring it to confession that it’s something
[00:20:32 –> 00:20:34] that weighs on you is because like you know
[00:20:34 –> 00:20:36] this is not the Lord’s plan for you,
[00:20:36 –> 00:20:37] but also too, this is not the way
[00:20:37 –> 00:20:40] in which we should be operating
[00:20:40 –> 00:20:41] as brothers and sisters in Christ.
[00:20:41 –> 00:20:43] And so yeah, there’s some initial thoughts there
[00:20:43 –> 00:20:46] off of the gossip and what that does.
[00:20:46 –> 00:20:48] And PT, you had mentioned this,
[00:20:48 –> 00:20:51] but sometimes it does take that relational courage to say,
[00:20:51 –> 00:20:52] “Hey, listen, I actually have to,
[00:20:52 –> 00:20:54] like, I can’t do this anymore.”
[00:20:56 –> 00:20:59] And so that’s a big deal to say, “Hey,
[00:20:59 –> 00:21:04] at the workplace, on the sports team, yeah,
[00:21:04 –> 00:21:06] like, I’m just gonna step out,”
[00:21:06 –> 00:21:08] or even having a hard conversation to say,
[00:21:08 –> 00:21:11] “hey guys, I appreciate we’re just like venting or talking,
[00:21:11 –> 00:21:13] but like, I’m really working on this.”
[00:21:13 –> 00:21:17] And so to have the relational courage to name it,
[00:21:17 –> 00:21:19] and if they’re like friends,
[00:21:19 –> 00:21:20] then they should be able to receive you.
[00:21:20 –> 00:21:21] Yeah.
[00:21:21 –> 00:21:24] Or it might be hard, but to name that
[00:21:24 –> 00:21:25] could be really helpful,
[00:21:25 –> 00:21:28] and really it takes a lot of courage.
[00:21:28 –> 00:21:30] Yeah, and it’s important to have somebody with you
[00:21:30 –> 00:21:30] in that space.
[00:21:30 –> 00:21:32] I think even like if it’s a one-on-one conversation,
[00:21:32 –> 00:21:35] I know I always, like with this person,
[00:21:35 –> 00:21:37] the conversation’s always going to a place of like venting
[00:21:37 –> 00:21:39] and like dumping about somebody.
[00:21:39 –> 00:21:41] But just to have the courage, yeah, to say like,
[00:21:41 –> 00:21:43] “Hey, look, I’m trying to work on some things,
[00:21:43 –> 00:21:45] and this just has not been helpful for me.
[00:21:45 –> 00:21:47] Like and I love you and I love our relationship,
[00:21:47 –> 00:21:50] but if we can just be better,
[00:21:50 –> 00:21:51] or if you can help me be better about this,
[00:21:51 –> 00:21:53] like I’d appreciate that.”
[00:21:54 –> 00:21:55] And then also too, like if it’s a social context,
[00:21:55 –> 00:21:57] I mean, if it’s a context of like group place
[00:21:57 –> 00:22:01] or workplace, just maybe even having a friend in that
[00:22:01 –> 00:22:03] saying like, “Hey, look, at work we always talk about this
[00:22:03 –> 00:22:05] and like that just doesn’t sit well with me.
[00:22:05 –> 00:22:08] And so can you just like be a buddy or be a friend,
[00:22:08 –> 00:22:10] and just like whenever the conversation starts this way,
[00:22:10 –> 00:22:12] I’m gonna look at you and like we’ll.”
[00:22:12 –> 00:22:15] Like just having somebody else with you in that space
[00:22:15 –> 00:22:16] I think is helpful.
[00:22:16 –> 00:22:19] But it is difficult to even get to that space,
[00:22:19 –> 00:22:21] to name it, to like own it,
[00:22:21 –> 00:22:24] and then also like to ask for help in that.
[00:22:25 –> 00:22:27] Yeah.
[00:22:27 –> 00:22:30] Father PT, let me know if this is something
[00:22:30 –> 00:22:31] that you want to say more about.
[00:22:31 –> 00:22:36] But I think it’s good, like I think both of you guys
[00:22:36 –> 00:22:38] have kind of, in different ways,
[00:22:38 –> 00:22:41] brought up like a bit of a question that goes to the root.
[00:22:41 –> 00:22:44] Like Father Innocent kind of started us off that way
[00:22:44 –> 00:22:47] by zooming out or kind of diving in deep of like,
[00:22:47 –> 00:22:49] what’s kind of going on with the heart here?
[00:22:49 –> 00:22:52] Like where is this at with my relationship with Jesus?
[00:22:52 –> 00:22:57] What am I being invited to?
[00:22:57 –> 00:22:58] What am I kind of doing here?
[00:23:00 –> 00:23:04] And then Father PT used a phrase, which just kind of,
[00:23:04 –> 00:23:07] if you wanted to give some general thoughts on it,
[00:23:07 –> 00:23:10] am I like trading authenticity for connection?
[00:23:10 –> 00:23:12] The idea that somehow
[00:23:12 –> 00:23:16] in like that kind of a gossiping space, whatever,
[00:23:16 –> 00:23:19] like I might be trying to connect with other people,
[00:23:19 –> 00:23:22] but at the sacrifice of like my morals
[00:23:22 –> 00:23:24] or like what I really want to be doing.
[00:23:25 –> 00:23:28] Like, I don’t know, like what is that,
[00:23:30 –> 00:23:32] I don’t know, what’s your understanding
[00:23:32 –> 00:23:34] of like this trade-off, like looking for connection,
[00:23:34 –> 00:23:36] but not in the right way?
[00:23:36 –> 00:23:41] I think generally, like when I’m authentically myself,
[00:23:42 –> 00:23:44] and now I’m going to use spiritual terms here,
[00:23:44 –> 00:23:48] where like I’m a beloved son or daughter,
[00:23:48 –> 00:23:50] and I’m just free in that space.
[00:23:50 –> 00:23:53] I’m not going to trade what that looks like
[00:23:53 –> 00:23:56] so I can connect with another person,
[00:23:56 –> 00:23:59] meaning like to sin or to somehow step
[00:23:59 –> 00:23:59] outside of that vision,
[00:23:59 –> 00:24:01] or just say no to my identity.
[00:24:03 –> 00:24:05] Because I think that’s what happens with sin sometimes.
[00:24:05 –> 00:24:08] Like I desire to connect with a person,
[00:24:08 –> 00:24:11] and they want to do something that’s like questionable,
[00:24:11 –> 00:24:12] and then I’m just gonna say no
[00:24:12 –> 00:24:13] to like the dignity that I have
[00:24:13 –> 00:24:17] or no to like the, yeah, my identity,
[00:24:17 –> 00:24:18] and just to kind of put that to the side
[00:24:18 –> 00:24:20] so I can meet this person in the space
[00:24:20 –> 00:24:22] and I can feel connected to them.
[00:24:23 –> 00:24:25] And so like generally that’s what that is.
[00:24:25 –> 00:24:27] But then, yeah, then also too, as I mentioned,
[00:24:27 –> 00:24:30] in the social setting of gossip
[00:24:30 –> 00:24:32] and just making it more concrete.
[00:24:32 –> 00:24:37] Yeah, like I think just being honest and real is authentic,
[00:24:38 –> 00:24:39] both to who you are,
[00:24:39 –> 00:24:42] but also to like how God has made you and created you.
[00:24:42 –> 00:24:45] And like I think at the deepest level of our hearts,
[00:24:45 –> 00:24:47] like we would not want to hear
[00:24:47 –> 00:24:50] or have other people speak about us
[00:24:50 –> 00:24:53] in ways that we sometimes speak about them, right?
[00:24:53 –> 00:24:57] And so I think just honoring that and knowing that,
[00:24:57 –> 00:25:00] and it’s obviously the Lord says it’s do unto others
[00:25:00 –> 00:25:01] as you would have done unto you.
[00:25:03 –> 00:25:04] Can I be authentic and real in that way,
[00:25:04 –> 00:25:07] and the way in which this doesn’t sit well in my heart,
[00:25:07 –> 00:25:11] that I can say, “Hey, like I’m actually not okay with this
[00:25:11 –> 00:25:15] because my heart’s created to honor and uphold other people
[00:25:15 –> 00:25:17] and so I won’t do this.”
[00:25:17 –> 00:25:20] As opposed to stifling that interior voice
[00:25:20 –> 00:25:22] or stifling that interior movement of my heart
[00:25:22 –> 00:25:25] of authenticity and saying,
[00:25:25 –> 00:25:27] “Even though I’m not okay with it, I’m going to stifle it,
[00:25:27 –> 00:25:30] because I think if I am authentic or if I am real,
[00:25:30 –> 00:25:33] I risk people not accepting me
[00:25:33 –> 00:25:36] or not loving me in the space, and then therefore
[00:25:36 –> 00:25:38] they’re gonna want to break relationship with me.
[00:25:38 –> 00:25:41] They’re gonna want to not be connected with me in the space.
[00:25:41 –> 00:25:43] And so therefore I’m not gonna be authentic.”
[00:25:43 –> 00:25:44] And that’s when we start to trade
[00:25:44 –> 00:25:45] authenticity for ourselves.
[00:25:45 –> 00:25:47] We start acting like people that we’re not.
[00:25:47 –> 00:25:51] We don’t claim or we don’t live out of our sonship
[00:25:51 –> 00:25:53] or our daughtership as fathers and sons,
[00:25:53 –> 00:25:56] and we just start to, sorry, sons and daughters,
[00:25:56 –> 00:25:57] and we start to just be somebody totally different
[00:25:57 –> 00:25:59] than who God has imagined us to be
[00:25:59 –> 00:26:00] and wants us to be authentically.
[00:26:00 –> 00:26:02] And so yes, it’s a little bit more on that,
[00:26:02 –> 00:26:07] just where, as long as I am in the space
[00:26:07 –> 00:26:11] and holding true to my heart, who God’s created me to be,
[00:26:11 –> 00:26:13] and I’m operating in a space that’s good,
[00:26:13 –> 00:26:17] I’m not gonna sacrifice like that authenticity,
[00:26:17 –> 00:26:20] that realness, that connectedness that I have with the Lord
[00:26:20 –> 00:26:23] for the connection with somebody else,
[00:26:23 –> 00:26:25] yeah, that can fail.
[00:26:25 –> 00:26:27] Father Innocent, anything to say about that too?
[00:26:28 –> 00:26:29] Did you have something, Father?
[00:26:29 –> 00:26:32] Yeah, I just, Father PT, I think what you’re saying
[00:26:32 –> 00:26:33] is just awesome.
[00:26:33 –> 00:26:35] Yeah, I just love listening to all that.
[00:26:37 –> 00:26:41] And what’s really beautiful is that it’s often,
[00:26:41 –> 00:26:42] like we think it’s connection,
[00:26:42 –> 00:26:47] like really stepping in and like being a part of,
[00:26:47 –> 00:26:49] like we think that like maybe sin or gossip
[00:26:49 –> 00:26:51] is gonna give us connection, but it’s an illusion.
[00:26:51 –> 00:26:54] It’s actually not the connection we long for.
[00:26:54 –> 00:26:56] So I’m just grateful for you saying,
[00:26:56 –> 00:26:57] like putting it in that context
[00:26:57 –> 00:27:02] that we forsake the authenticity of our hearts
[00:27:02 –> 00:27:04] because we think it’s going to actually give us
[00:27:04 –> 00:27:06] what we want, but it doesn’t.
[00:27:06 –> 00:27:08] And so anyway, I just love all that,
[00:27:08 –> 00:27:09] because to encourage people
[00:27:09 –> 00:27:13] that you don’t have to be afraid
[00:27:13 –> 00:27:15] to like be your authentic self,
[00:27:15 –> 00:27:19] and don’t settle for the illusions or the lies
[00:27:19 –> 00:27:21] that actually it’s gonna give you what you desire,
[00:27:21 –> 00:27:26] because in that context, it always makes you feel.
[00:27:27 –> 00:27:30] It doesn’t give you what you desire, your heart desires, so.
[00:27:32 –> 00:27:33] Thanks guys.
[00:27:33 –> 00:27:38] And I do like believe in this principle.
[00:27:39 –> 00:27:41] I think it’s a leadership principle,
[00:27:41 –> 00:27:43] but it’s from my guy, Jocko.
[00:27:45 –> 00:27:47] I say my guy, not that I know him or that we’re friends,
[00:27:47 –> 00:27:49] but that I think he’s cool.
[00:27:50 –> 00:27:53] And he talks about using,
[00:27:53 –> 00:27:55] and this is like my remembered paraphrase,
[00:27:55 –> 00:27:57] but like using the minimum force necessary
[00:27:57 –> 00:27:59] to get the desired results,
[00:28:02 –> 00:28:06] which I kind of introduce as something
[00:28:06 –> 00:28:09] that is not being passive-aggressive.
[00:28:09 –> 00:28:12] Passive-aggressive I think is like very aggressive,
[00:28:12 –> 00:28:14] but in this passive way.
[00:28:14 –> 00:28:17] Obviously, that’s why we use the words we do use
[00:28:17 –> 00:28:19] to call it what we call it.
[00:28:19 –> 00:28:20] Nice.
[00:28:22 –> 00:28:23] You’re doing great, buddy, you’re doing great.
[00:28:23 –> 00:28:26] Thank you, thank you, thank you.
[00:28:26 –> 00:28:29] But like, I don’t know, the minimum force necessary idea,
[00:28:29 –> 00:28:34] I think it is like, it’s a gentle way
[00:28:35 –> 00:28:37] to give somebody an out.
[00:28:39 –> 00:28:42] Or it’s a gentle way to kind of communicate the truth
[00:28:42 –> 00:28:46] or the reality that you want to be communicated.
[00:28:46 –> 00:28:49] But you’re not trying to like beat them up with it.
[00:28:52 –> 00:28:57] And so like I think people are, generally speaking,
[00:28:57 –> 00:29:01] not everybody, pretty expert at reading each other,
[00:29:02 –> 00:29:06] and that actually you can like communicate to somebody
[00:29:06 –> 00:29:08] you’d rather not continue down a certain
[00:29:08 –> 00:29:12] like train of thought without having to go like,
[00:29:12 –> 00:29:14] “This is gossip, I don’t want to gossip.
[00:29:14 –> 00:29:15] I’m done gossiping.
[00:29:15 –> 00:29:16] We should stop gossiping.
[00:29:16 –> 00:29:19] Say three things nice about this person.”
[00:29:19 –> 00:29:22] There may be, particularly in a relationship,
[00:29:22 –> 00:29:24] there could certainly be a space
[00:29:24 –> 00:29:25] for like a preemptive conversation like,
[00:29:25 –> 00:29:28] “Hey, I know, dude, I know I come to these situations
[00:29:28 –> 00:29:31] and I am awesome gossiping about a lot of people,
[00:29:31 –> 00:29:33] and I’ve just been convicted about it,
[00:29:33 –> 00:29:35] and I’m trying to like not do that.”
[00:29:35 –> 00:29:37] And maybe if this is like your language,
[00:29:37 –> 00:29:38] that’s not what I would say, but it’s like,
[00:29:38 –> 00:29:41] “I’m trying to bring more light and grace into the world
[00:29:41 –> 00:29:44] and not heaviness and darkness or whatever.”
[00:29:44 –> 00:29:46] Like you can just kind of do something
[00:29:46 –> 00:29:49] that gets out ahead of it and just kind of lets them know,
[00:29:49 –> 00:29:52] “Hey, this is a journey I’m trying to go on.
[00:29:52 –> 00:29:53] Here’s why.”
[00:29:54 –> 00:29:57] And essentially like what it does is to like invite them
[00:29:57 –> 00:29:59] into a new way of relating to you.
[00:29:59 –> 00:30:02] So I think a lot of times that’s a good thing to do.
[00:30:02 –> 00:30:05] In the midst of some complaining or things like that,
[00:30:05 –> 00:30:06] there is a degree of like, okay,
[00:30:06 –> 00:30:08] because somebody might be sharing something
[00:30:08 –> 00:30:12] that’s like gossipy, that’s like they’ve just been hurt,
[00:30:12 –> 00:30:13] and this is a really hard thing,
[00:30:13 –> 00:30:16] and they just can’t carry it by themselves anymore,
[00:30:16 –> 00:30:17] so they’re bringing it to you.
[00:30:17 –> 00:30:18] And like, okay.
[00:30:18 –> 00:30:22] But there is a way of kind of developing the skill,
[00:30:25 –> 00:30:28] which can take some preemptive though of like,
[00:30:29 –> 00:30:33] yeah, oh, that’s hard, or that sounds really hard.
[00:30:33 –> 00:30:34] I’m sorry that’s happening.
[00:30:34 –> 00:30:35] Like is there anything,
[00:30:35 –> 00:30:37] is there any way I can be helpful to you?
[00:30:37 –> 00:30:40] Like where instead of like, “Yeah, that guy is a jerk,
[00:30:40 –> 00:30:41] and I can’t believe he did all that stuff.”
[00:30:41 –> 00:30:43] Or it’s like, “Oh, okay, yeah,
[00:30:43 –> 00:30:44] I’m grateful that you felt comfortable
[00:30:44 –> 00:30:45] sharing that with me.”
[00:30:47 –> 00:30:50] I don’t know, I think there’s an art or a skill to,
[00:30:52 –> 00:30:54] again, like kind of receiving the person,
[00:30:56 –> 00:30:59] but then like redirecting things.
[00:30:59 –> 00:31:00] And because I don’t know, like I feel like with,
[00:31:00 –> 00:31:03] there’s a lot of guys in the community who it’s just like,
[00:31:08 –> 00:31:11] like if you want to complain or like to gossip to them
[00:31:11 –> 00:31:11] or something like that,
[00:31:11 –> 00:31:12] they’re like not going to give you much,
[00:31:12 –> 00:31:14] and it like does communicate.
[00:31:14 –> 00:31:16] And I think overall it’s like kind of a bit of a culture
[00:31:16 –> 00:31:21] that’s not perfect, but we try kind of to uphold of like,
[00:31:21 –> 00:31:23] yeah, it’s not totally something like I’m into
[00:31:23 –> 00:31:25] or that we do here.
[00:31:25 –> 00:31:28] And I don’t know.
[00:31:31 –> 00:31:33] Yeah, I think it’s possible.
[00:31:33 –> 00:31:34] I think if we pray about it.
[00:31:34 –> 00:31:38] I think perhaps if you feel like you’re in a place
[00:31:38 –> 00:31:39] where like having the conversation beforehand,
[00:31:39 –> 00:31:41] sharing like something new in your heart,
[00:31:41 –> 00:31:43] I think that’s good.
[00:31:43 –> 00:31:44] But also I think like when,
[00:31:44 –> 00:31:47] because a lot of the hard part, why I brought it up is like,
[00:31:47 –> 00:31:49] sometimes these things are being brought to you all the time
[00:31:49 –> 00:31:51] and this is how a whole culture of people relates.
[00:31:51 –> 00:31:55] And I think there’s a way from within it to redirect,
[00:31:55 –> 00:31:57] to sort of communicate like,
[00:31:57 –> 00:31:59] “Hey, I’d rather talk about something else.”
[00:32:00 –> 00:32:03] But it’s probably a bit of a skill that takes practice.
[00:32:03 –> 00:32:05] Yeah, and obviously the more you’re in it,
[00:32:05 –> 00:32:07] the more you’re gonna learn what’s good for your heart,
[00:32:07 –> 00:32:08] what’s not.
[00:32:08 –> 00:32:10] And yeah, just to your point,
[00:32:10 –> 00:32:12] there are like little things you can learn.
[00:32:12 –> 00:32:14] Like sometimes I say,
[00:32:14 –> 00:32:17] “Hey, can I shift the conversation here?”
[00:32:17 –> 00:32:18] And then the person’s like, “Oh, okay.”
[00:32:18 –> 00:32:20] Or, yeah, then they’ll, “No.”
[00:32:20 –> 00:32:21] And anyway, it’s just like, well,
[00:32:21 –> 00:32:23] then it gives me another opportunity to say,
[00:32:23 –> 00:32:26] “Well, I actually prefer to shift the conversation here.”
[00:32:26 –> 00:32:29] Or like whatever it is that you can work in your language
[00:32:29 –> 00:32:30] to let the person know that, “Hey,
[00:32:30 –> 00:32:33] I’m not gonna be doing this.”
[00:32:33 –> 00:32:35] There’s one brother in particular.
[00:32:35 –> 00:32:38] Like I don’t know if I’ve ever heard him say anything
[00:32:38 –> 00:32:40] disparaging about anybody,
[00:32:40 –> 00:32:42] let alone like brothers in the community.
[00:32:42 –> 00:32:43] And like I’ve seen him in spaces
[00:32:43 –> 00:32:45] where other brothers are saying stuff,
[00:32:45 –> 00:32:47] and like he’ll just be quiet,
[00:32:47 –> 00:32:51] and then like he’ll either, like just won’t engage,
[00:32:51 –> 00:32:54] or he’ll like just talk about something else.
[00:32:54 –> 00:32:56] And like even in a one-on-one conversation,
[00:32:56 –> 00:32:58] he’ll like, “Hmm, bro, that’s tough.
[00:32:58 –> 00:32:59] Yeah, and so anyway.”
[00:32:59 –> 00:33:01] And like he’ll bring it someplace else.
[00:33:01 –> 00:33:05] And then I just always noted that, and like I know that,
[00:33:05 –> 00:33:08] and even though he’s made an intentional decision
[00:33:08 –> 00:33:11] to do that, like he’s never communicated to me like,
[00:33:11 –> 00:33:13] “Hey, by the way, I don’t gossip about people.”
[00:33:13 –> 00:33:14] But like to your point, Father Mark-Mary,
[00:33:14 –> 00:33:15] you could pick up from other people,
[00:33:15 –> 00:33:17] like what they’re putting down.
[00:33:17 –> 00:33:20] And so, yeah, you could just start to do that
[00:33:20 –> 00:33:23] in a way that is natural to you,
[00:33:23 –> 00:33:27] but also like honors that, okay this is not a space
[00:33:27 –> 00:33:29] I want to like have in our relationship.
[00:33:29 –> 00:33:32] And yeah, it’s just I think something good to recognize.
[00:33:32 –> 00:33:35] But also, recognizing it’s difficult,
[00:33:35 –> 00:33:38] it’ll take grace, it’ll take the Lord’s help.
[00:33:38 –> 00:33:39] So it’s not all up to you.
[00:33:40 –> 00:33:42] Yeah, and the only, I’m just gonna bring up
[00:33:42 –> 00:33:45] what I brought up last episode, like relational dynamics.
[00:33:45 –> 00:33:47] I think there is an art, there is a practice.
[00:33:50 –> 00:33:52] What if we went into a season of life
[00:33:52 –> 00:33:53] where we were just present to these things
[00:33:53 –> 00:33:54] in a different way,
[00:33:54 –> 00:33:57] and we recognize to like learn and be formed?
[00:33:57 –> 00:33:59] I think formation’s good around these things.
[00:33:59 –> 00:34:02] So yeah, that’s all, I think it’s a worthy thing to learn.
[00:34:04 –> 00:34:07] Because again, it’s absolute grace.
[00:34:07 –> 00:34:09] I mean, I think it’s real grace,
[00:34:09 –> 00:34:11] but then also, we can be formed,
[00:34:11 –> 00:34:16] and so just to learn these things so we can navigate better,
[00:34:20 –> 00:34:22] I just think it’s worthy for sure.
[00:34:26 –> 00:34:28] Great, appreciate it.
[00:34:28 –> 00:34:30] As promised, we’ll go ahead and end it here.
[00:34:30 –> 00:34:31] Okay.
[00:34:31 –> 00:34:33] Father Mark-Mary, you want to close us on a prayer,
[00:34:33 –> 00:34:34] Father Mark-Mary? – I was gonna say,
[00:34:34 –> 00:34:35] is it okay if we shift the conversation here?
[00:34:35 –> 00:34:37] (Father Innocent laughs)
[00:34:37 –> 00:34:39] In the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen.
[00:34:39 –> 00:34:41] Thank you, Jesus, for your mercy,
[00:34:41 –> 00:34:42] your goodness, your kindness.
[00:34:43 –> 00:34:45] Thank you for Father Angelus.
[00:34:46 –> 00:34:49] May you bless him, whatever he’s doing.
[00:34:49 –> 00:34:54] And may you just continue to be with us and to guide us
[00:34:54 –> 00:34:55] as we are journeying
[00:34:55 –> 00:34:56] in all these different aspects of our life.
[00:34:56 –> 00:34:58] We entrust to you anyone who has been convicted of gossip
[00:34:58 –> 00:35:00] and is trying to grow in that area,
[00:35:00 –> 00:35:03] may you give them wisdom, prudence, courage,
[00:35:03 –> 00:35:06] and help them make the next best step.
[00:35:06 –> 00:35:07] In Jesus’ name, we pray, amen.
[00:35:07 –> 00:35:08] Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen.
[00:35:13 –> 00:35:17] Okay, so how do you feel about the Mets head coach?
[00:35:17 –> 00:35:18] Just kidding, that’d be like a.
[00:35:18 –> 00:35:20] (Father Innocent laughs)
[00:35:20 –> 00:35:21] Anyway, all right.
[00:35:21 –> 00:35:23] We’ll see you guys next week.
[00:35:23 –> 00:35:24] Peace, everybody.
[00:35:24 –> 00:35:25] All right peace. – Bye.
[00:35:25 –> 00:35:27] ♪ Poco a poco vamos a llegar ♪
[00:35:27 –> 00:35:29] ♪ Somos peregrinos and you know that’s who we are ♪