[00:00:00 –> 00:00:01] Peace, everybody, Father Angelus here,
[00:00:01 –> 00:00:02] I just wanna say thank you for all of you
[00:00:02 –> 00:00:05] who support the “Poco a Poco Podcast.”
[00:00:05 –> 00:00:07] Your generosity and faithfulness to us
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[00:00:08 –> 00:00:11] with all those that tune in every week.
[00:00:11 –> 00:00:12] If you’re not yet a monthly supporter,
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[00:00:19 –> 00:00:23] You can sign up at spiritjuice.org/pocoapoco
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[00:00:24 –> 00:00:27] Thank you for walking with us.
[00:00:27 –> 00:00:28] (bright pleasant music)
[00:00:28 –> 00:00:31] You’re listening to the “Poco a Poco Podcast,”
[00:00:31 –> 00:00:33] sponsored by Spirit Juice Studios.
[00:00:33 –> 00:00:37] (singer singing in Spanish)
[00:00:37 –> 00:00:38] ♪ And you know that’s who we are ♪
[00:00:38 –> 00:00:39] ♪ We make our way ♪
[00:00:39 –> 00:00:41] Hey, I’m Father Mark-Mary.
[00:00:41 –> 00:00:43] ♪ Little by little we learn, a little more ♪
[00:00:43 –> 00:00:45] Hey, I’m Father PT.
[00:00:45 –> 00:00:47] What’s up, everybody, Father Innocent here.
[00:00:47 –> 00:00:49] Hey, everyone, Father Angelus.
[00:00:50 –> 00:00:52] We’re gonna have to start, what,
[00:00:52 –> 00:00:54] you can help me find the sports analogy,
[00:00:54 –> 00:00:58] but I think we need to just consider
[00:00:58 –> 00:01:00] Father Angelus’ starting pitcher.
[00:01:01 –> 00:01:04] And we need to make sure he gets his pitches in-
[00:01:04 –> 00:01:05] (person laughing)
[00:01:05 –> 00:01:07] As soon as possible.
[00:01:07 –> 00:01:10] And then we can just kinda be the relievers and, you know.
[00:01:11 –> 00:01:13] Guys.
[00:01:13 –> 00:01:14] I really wanna talk about it.
[00:01:14 –> 00:01:17] Yeah, or maybe like he’s like in basketball,
[00:01:17 –> 00:01:20] like, you wanna get him going first, you know?
[00:01:20 –> 00:01:22] ‘Cause like, yeah, and then he-
[00:01:22 –> 00:01:23] Get him the minutes early?
[00:01:23 –> 00:01:24] Get him the minutes early, right?
[00:01:24 –> 00:01:26] Get him shots, let him get in the flow of the game,
[00:01:26 –> 00:01:29] and then we can kind of come in after,
[00:01:29 –> 00:01:31] like, once he’s in and, like, warm, you know?
[00:01:31 –> 00:01:35] I’m just holding the cord that goes into the computer.
[00:01:35 –> 00:01:37] I’m just holding it in right now.
[00:01:37 –> 00:01:38] Anyway, here we are, boys.
[00:01:39 –> 00:01:41] Here we are. (laughs)
[00:01:41 –> 00:01:44] It’s gonna be interesting 45 minutes to an hour.
[00:01:45 –> 00:01:47] Times three more.
[00:01:48 –> 00:01:52] So we’re gonna just try this episode
[00:01:52 –> 00:01:54] to get into it, I think.
[00:01:54 –> 00:01:57] And just let’s try and get one full episode
[00:01:58 –> 00:02:00] with Father Angelus.
[00:02:00 –> 00:02:02] How long’s it been since we had you for a full one?
[00:02:02 –> 00:02:05] We did the, remember the last four I was on?
[00:02:05 –> 00:02:06] Oh, because you were somewhere else.
[00:02:06 –> 00:02:07] ‘Cause I was somewhere else.
[00:02:07 –> 00:02:09] But again, we don’t think it’s an internet issue.
[00:02:09 –> 00:02:11] Just throwing that out there again.
[00:02:14 –> 00:02:15] But it’s funny- – Hey,
[00:02:15 –> 00:02:16] can you take off your headphones
[00:02:16 –> 00:02:17] for a minute, Father Angelus?
[00:02:19 –> 00:02:21] I don’t think it’s a technological issue.
[00:02:22 –> 00:02:23] It’s a Father Angelus issue?
[00:02:23 –> 00:02:25] Oh, wait, what?
[00:02:25 –> 00:02:26] I’m just kidding.
[00:02:27 –> 00:02:30] I absolutely don’t think it’s a Father Angelus issue.
[00:02:30 –> 00:02:35] I will say that I’m pretty not surprised, but I am,
[00:02:37 –> 00:02:39] like, it’s interesting, like, you keep trying to show up.
[00:02:39 –> 00:02:41] I think the old Father Angelus would be like,
[00:02:41 –> 00:02:42] “Guys, I’m done, this is a sign
[00:02:42 –> 00:02:43] I’m not supposed to be here.”
[00:02:43 –> 00:02:44] But, like, you’re working hard at this.
[00:02:44 –> 00:02:47] Well, I like hanging out with you, so.
[00:02:47 –> 00:02:48] I appreciate you.
[00:02:48 –> 00:02:50] I do appreciate that as well.
[00:02:50 –> 00:02:52] Thank you. – That goes noted.
[00:02:52 –> 00:02:53] Okay.
[00:02:54 –> 00:02:56] So, again- – Okay.
[00:02:58 –> 00:03:02] For the sake of trying to get a full episode
[00:03:02 –> 00:03:03] with Father Angelus,
[00:03:03 –> 00:03:08] we’re gonna veer from our typical structure.
[00:03:08 –> 00:03:09] This one might be a little bit shorter
[00:03:09 –> 00:03:12] because we’re gonna cut out the first little 10 minutes
[00:03:12 –> 00:03:15] of what we all call fraternal time.
[00:03:16 –> 00:03:18] People are gonna be sorely disappointed there.
[00:03:20 –> 00:03:23] You know, but then they will find consolation
[00:03:24 –> 00:03:29] in your presence, hopefully, at the end of the episode.
[00:03:30 –> 00:03:32] So one of the,
[00:03:34 –> 00:03:36] I have this down for us to talk about.
[00:03:36 –> 00:03:39] I just moved the order of it.
[00:03:39 –> 00:03:42] You know, last week we were talking about sports
[00:03:42 –> 00:03:44] and finding, like, our victory in the victory of another
[00:03:44 –> 00:03:48] and also sort of the joy and some of the joy of heaven
[00:03:48 –> 00:03:51] being in not just our victory in Christ,
[00:03:51 –> 00:03:52] our individual victory in Christ,
[00:03:52 –> 00:03:55] but, like, the communal nature of victory
[00:03:55 –> 00:03:57] and looked at, like, some ordination stuff and weddings
[00:03:57 –> 00:04:01] and just, like, how this is kind of part of the vision.
[00:04:02 –> 00:04:04] And I say, I start there
[00:04:04 –> 00:04:07] because I do think this is already a little bit of a glimpse
[00:04:07 –> 00:04:10] of some of the answer here,
[00:04:10 –> 00:04:14] but I don’t want to overly simplify the issue.
[00:04:14 –> 00:04:16] And the question is this, like,
[00:04:18 –> 00:04:23] what are some tips for dealing with comparison insecurity?
[00:04:23 –> 00:04:24] Comparison insecurity.
[00:04:26 –> 00:04:31] And I just think it’s like a wildly prevalent struggle
[00:04:33 –> 00:04:36] for a lot of people and it touches on a lot.
[00:04:37 –> 00:04:40] And yeah, I’d be happy
[00:04:40 –> 00:04:42] to just kind of hear your guys’ thoughts.
[00:04:42 –> 00:04:43] Like, so how to deal
[00:04:43 –> 00:04:48] with comparison insecurity in human things,
[00:04:48 –> 00:04:50] and natural things, and supernatural things,
[00:04:50 –> 00:04:51] and vocation things.
[00:04:53 –> 00:04:54] If it’s all right, Father Angelus,
[00:04:54 –> 00:04:56] kind of sticking with the theme,
[00:04:57 –> 00:04:59] can I just send it to you
[00:04:59 –> 00:05:02] and have you kind of give some initial thoughts?
[00:05:02 –> 00:05:04] Send it to me before something happens
[00:05:04 –> 00:05:05] and then if something happens,
[00:05:05 –> 00:05:06] then at least you heard from me.
[00:05:06 –> 00:05:07] Is that what’s going on here?
[00:05:07 –> 00:05:08] Yeah. – Yeah.
[00:05:08 –> 00:05:10] Okay, so anyway.
[00:05:10 –> 00:05:11] Yeah, bro, I think it’s a great question.
[00:05:11 –> 00:05:15] I’m assuming that last episode was amazing, so here we are.
[00:05:15 –> 00:05:20] But I think, yeah, I think it’s an important, yeah,
[00:05:21 –> 00:05:22] it’s an important question.
[00:05:22 –> 00:05:24] I think it’s an important issue.
[00:05:24 –> 00:05:25] I think as we all have an experience
[00:05:25 –> 00:05:28] with young guys in our community, too, guys come in
[00:05:28 –> 00:05:31] and I think desire to be themselves.
[00:05:31 –> 00:05:33] We encourage them to be themselves.
[00:05:33 –> 00:05:36] We celebrate them, their uniqueness,
[00:05:36 –> 00:05:37] like what God’s doing in them.
[00:05:37 –> 00:05:42] But it’s really easy to experience, especially young people,
[00:05:42 –> 00:05:44] and we probably had experiences in our own lives
[00:05:44 –> 00:05:45] when we come in
[00:05:45 –> 00:05:48] and we just instantly kind of look around
[00:05:48 –> 00:05:50] and we instantly see a lot of other things
[00:05:50 –> 00:05:52] happening around us, a lot of other talented people,
[00:05:52 –> 00:05:53] a lot of other gifted people,
[00:05:53 –> 00:05:54] I think particularly inside the church too,
[00:05:54 –> 00:05:56] and people are just using amazing gifts
[00:05:56 –> 00:05:58] that God has given them.
[00:05:58 –> 00:06:03] And then there’s this sense that the lies that come up,
[00:06:03 –> 00:06:05] that “I’m not good enough, that I don’t match up,
[00:06:05 –> 00:06:07] that God hasn’t like necessarily given me
[00:06:07 –> 00:06:10] or blessed me like He has blessed them.”
[00:06:10 –> 00:06:11] And so, then we turn on ourselves in a way,
[00:06:11 –> 00:06:13] like, we get down on ourselves,
[00:06:13 –> 00:06:15] this is where the insecurity comes in.
[00:06:15 –> 00:06:18] And we’re constantly trying to like wrestle
[00:06:18 –> 00:06:19] with like who we are,
[00:06:19 –> 00:06:22] but we’re constantly looking at other people, right?
[00:06:22 –> 00:06:24] And so, I think the first thing that comes to mind
[00:06:24 –> 00:06:25] in the midst of that is this, like,
[00:06:25 –> 00:06:28] “Man, if I’m not at home in myself,
[00:06:28 –> 00:06:30] oftentimes we’ll talk about,
[00:06:30 –> 00:06:31] when Father Innocent talks about identity,
[00:06:31 –> 00:06:35] we talk about a proper self-love, a proper confidence,
[00:06:35 –> 00:06:40] a proper, yeah, like a joy in who I am.
[00:06:40 –> 00:06:41] A joy in who the Lord made me.
[00:06:41 –> 00:06:45] A joy that I’m His Son, His daughter.
[00:06:45 –> 00:06:47] A joy that I’m actually not like everyone else,
[00:06:47 –> 00:06:49] which is the complete opposite of comparing myself
[00:06:49 –> 00:06:51] and wanting to be everyone else.
[00:06:51 –> 00:06:54] It’s a sense that, “No, like, God made me,
[00:06:54 –> 00:06:55] I’m made in His image and likeness.
[00:06:55 –> 00:06:56] He loves me.”
[00:06:56 –> 00:06:58] And I can be at home in that.
[00:06:59 –> 00:07:01] I can delight in that
[00:07:01 –> 00:07:04] because I know who delights in me, right?
[00:07:04 –> 00:07:06] But if we don’t put in that interior work
[00:07:06 –> 00:07:07] to grow in the truth of who we are,
[00:07:07 –> 00:07:09] then we’re not at home anywhere.
[00:07:09 –> 00:07:12] And so, it’s almost like, hey, we’re trying to look around
[00:07:12 –> 00:07:15] and we’re trying to find the truth of who we are
[00:07:15 –> 00:07:16] in other people.
[00:07:16 –> 00:07:18] And we’re always gonna fall short.
[00:07:18 –> 00:07:20] And that’s our normal experience of that.
[00:07:20 –> 00:07:21] We’re always gonna fall short
[00:07:21 –> 00:07:23] when we compare ourselves to other people.
[00:07:23 –> 00:07:24] And so, I just, again,
[00:07:24 –> 00:07:27] to kinda say that this is super important,
[00:07:27 –> 00:07:28] this is why we do the work we do,
[00:07:28 –> 00:07:30] so people can find at home,
[00:07:30 –> 00:07:33] in their own hearts, in their own bodies,
[00:07:33 –> 00:07:34] in their own souls, in their own gifts,
[00:07:34 –> 00:07:36] in their own personality, in their own temperaments
[00:07:36 –> 00:07:38] instead of trying to find their home
[00:07:38 –> 00:07:41] or comparing themselves to other people.
[00:07:41 –> 00:07:43] But we all know how difficult that work can be.
[00:07:45 –> 00:07:46] Can I follow up?
[00:07:47 –> 00:07:48] Great.
[00:07:48 –> 00:07:51] Father Angelus, I’m gonna prompt you as well here,
[00:07:51 –> 00:07:54] but just to say this is probably pretty important,
[00:07:55 –> 00:07:57] recognizing that when we have,
[00:07:57 –> 00:07:59] we’re calling it insecurity in comparison, right?
[00:07:59 –> 00:08:03] Like, this is a common experience for our humanity.
[00:08:03 –> 00:08:07] And maybe to more ask you a question
[00:08:08 –> 00:08:11] is that these things just don’t accidentally happen, right?
[00:08:11 –> 00:08:14] We would say that these things are also storied, right?
[00:08:16 –> 00:08:19] There are moments in our story, in our history
[00:08:19 –> 00:08:24] where we didn’t necessarily feel that, again,
[00:08:24 –> 00:08:26] we were loved, or safe, or secure
[00:08:26 –> 00:08:28] in the gift of who we are, right?
[00:08:28 –> 00:08:30] So then we turn outwards.
[00:08:30 –> 00:08:33] How important is it for us to get to know our story,
[00:08:33 –> 00:08:34] to know that we can process,
[00:08:34 –> 00:08:38] and like you talk about metabolize these experiences
[00:08:38 –> 00:08:41] where again, yes, I have a daily experience of this,
[00:08:41 –> 00:08:43] but I can also look back in my story
[00:08:43 –> 00:08:46] and realize, “Wow, like, this is when I actually started
[00:08:46 –> 00:08:49] to not feel safe or in my home,
[00:08:49 –> 00:08:53] or in my experience of at school or things like that.”
[00:08:53 –> 00:08:57] And it starts this, you could say it starts this habit
[00:08:58 –> 00:09:00] or experience of life
[00:09:00 –> 00:09:02] where I become anxious and insecure,
[00:09:02 –> 00:09:05] and then I start to look outwards and compare myself.
[00:09:05 –> 00:09:07] So it actually storied it.
[00:09:07 –> 00:09:09] Can you say a little bit more about that,
[00:09:09 –> 00:09:11] that we actually learn this behavior?
[00:09:11 –> 00:09:12] Yeah, and I think maybe the thing,
[00:09:12 –> 00:09:15] the word to use would be we pick up narratives along the way
[00:09:15 –> 00:09:17] that we believe about ourselves
[00:09:17 –> 00:09:19] and those are probably very early on
[00:09:19 –> 00:09:22] where we show up in the world being second best,
[00:09:22 –> 00:09:23] or we show up in the world not being good enough,
[00:09:23 –> 00:09:26] or we show up in the world not feeling
[00:09:26 –> 00:09:29] like what we have to offer matters, right?
[00:09:29 –> 00:09:30] So we learn that.
[00:09:30 –> 00:09:33] And so, maybe my question for our audience who, again,
[00:09:33 –> 00:09:35] all of us kind of struggle with this in some ways,
[00:09:35 –> 00:09:36] like, where do we pick that stuff up?
[00:09:36 –> 00:09:37] I think that’s, Father Innocent,
[00:09:37 –> 00:09:39] that’s what you’re talking about.
[00:09:39 –> 00:09:41] It’s like, we just didn’t pick it up last week
[00:09:41 –> 00:09:43] when I was at a training with young adults
[00:09:43 –> 00:09:45] and all of a sudden I walk into a room
[00:09:45 –> 00:09:47] and feel less than everyone else, right?
[00:09:47 –> 00:09:49] You pick it up and we pick it up most likely
[00:09:49 –> 00:09:50] when we’re young from experiences,
[00:09:50 –> 00:09:53] most likely people that are supposed
[00:09:53 –> 00:09:54] to have some sort of authority over us,
[00:09:54 –> 00:09:56] make us feel particular ways, right?
[00:09:56 –> 00:09:58] Especially when we pick up narratives
[00:09:58 –> 00:10:00] and that’s the word I wanna maybe offer
[00:10:00 –> 00:10:02] is that the narratives that we hold in our lives,
[00:10:02 –> 00:10:04] the narratives that we believe about ourselves
[00:10:04 –> 00:10:08] carry into different experiences, different stages of life.
[00:10:08 –> 00:10:09] And so, that’s just interesting.
[00:10:09 –> 00:10:10] Man, I show up to the brotherhood
[00:10:10 –> 00:10:12] believing particular things and you’re like,
[00:10:12 –> 00:10:13] “Man, where did that come from?”
[00:10:13 –> 00:10:14] Or, “Man, where did I pick that up?
[00:10:14 –> 00:10:16] Man, why do I believe that?”
[00:10:16 –> 00:10:20] And that’s just the good work, right, of who do we believe?
[00:10:20 –> 00:10:22] And, again, when we walk with the Lord
[00:10:22 –> 00:10:23] and we walk as disciples of the Lord,
[00:10:23 –> 00:10:26] the Lord gets to rewrite narratives.
[00:10:26 –> 00:10:27] And I think that’s part of the healing journey.
[00:10:27 –> 00:10:32] He gets to rewrite and restore
[00:10:32 –> 00:10:33] as we kind of renounce lies in our lives,
[00:10:33 –> 00:10:35] we get to believe different things.
[00:10:35 –> 00:10:36] So maybe I don’t have to show up and say,
[00:10:36 –> 00:10:38] “Man, I’m not good at anything.”
[00:10:38 –> 00:10:39] And we get to see like,
[00:10:39 –> 00:10:40] “No, actually, what has Lord done in me
[00:10:40 –> 00:10:41] and what do I offer?”
[00:10:43 –> 00:10:45] That’s a cool part of the journey that can open up,
[00:10:45 –> 00:10:49] but naming narratives and grieving narratives
[00:10:49 –> 00:10:51] and being able to be bold about things
[00:10:51 –> 00:10:54] that I picked up along the way that I need to shed
[00:10:54 –> 00:10:56] is just a super important part about growth
[00:10:56 –> 00:10:58] and maturity in spiritual life.
[00:11:01 –> 00:11:03] And I’m gonna kind of put some flesh
[00:11:03 –> 00:11:05] on our recent experience.
[00:11:08 –> 00:11:10] Which I think, well, yeah,
[00:11:10 –> 00:11:12] and we can just kind of do with it what you will.
[00:11:12 –> 00:11:16] But I was, yeah, recently in a context
[00:11:16 –> 00:11:17] where myself and another brother
[00:11:17 –> 00:11:20] were meeting with different people
[00:11:20 –> 00:11:22] for like kind of guided retreat.
[00:11:22 –> 00:11:26] And we just kind of do it,
[00:11:26 –> 00:11:28] obviously, so different, you know?
[00:11:28 –> 00:11:31] And like, you know, I looked in his room
[00:11:31 –> 00:11:34] and there’s like he’d like traveled with this icon
[00:11:34 –> 00:11:37] and he had the, like, the Word of God out
[00:11:37 –> 00:11:40] and, you know, like he kind of does
[00:11:40 –> 00:11:41] what some of you guys do a lot,
[00:11:41 –> 00:11:45] which is, like, kind of stopping mid-direction,
[00:11:45 –> 00:11:47] like, “Hey, let’s just pray about this real quick.”
[00:11:47 –> 00:11:49] And so, every now and then, you know,
[00:11:49 –> 00:11:52] I’d finish up and walk past and see him in his window
[00:11:52 –> 00:11:54] and, you know, he’s got his, like, arms out
[00:11:54 –> 00:11:58] and everyone’s head’s bowed and all that sort of stuff.
[00:11:58 –> 00:12:02] And there was just, like, mine just looks very different.
[00:12:03 –> 00:12:06] And okay, Father Angelus, we lost you.
[00:12:07 –> 00:12:10] Have a break. (laughs)
[00:12:10 –> 00:12:14] All right, so we just lost Father Angelus
[00:12:14 –> 00:12:18] and hope you enjoyed his presence on this episode.
[00:12:18 –> 00:12:23] But what, like, I don’t know, there’s just, like,
[00:12:23 –> 00:12:26] that immediately brings up insecurity.
[00:12:26 –> 00:12:28] Like, there’s a comparison of, like,
[00:12:28 –> 00:12:30] what’s going on there is very different
[00:12:30 –> 00:12:32] than what’s going on in my room.
[00:12:32 –> 00:12:35] And his has taken much longer
[00:12:35 –> 00:12:38] and it looks much more sort of intense and prayerful.
[00:12:38 –> 00:12:40] And I remember having this even, like,
[00:12:40 –> 00:12:42] as a postulate or novice, as a new guy.
[00:12:42 –> 00:12:44] And, you know, we’d go somewhere
[00:12:44 –> 00:12:46] and then somebody would share,
[00:12:46 –> 00:12:48] like, what they were talking about.
[00:12:48 –> 00:12:50] And it was, like, you know, the super deep,
[00:12:50 –> 00:12:53] like, whatever, apologetics type of thing.
[00:12:54 –> 00:12:56] And mine was just different.
[00:12:56 –> 00:12:59] And it seemed like what I was able to see later on
[00:12:59 –> 00:13:01] is, like, I just kinda asked a lot more questions about them
[00:13:01 –> 00:13:05] and their life and I kind of talked at them less.
[00:13:05 –> 00:13:07] But like, this just happens.
[00:13:07 –> 00:13:09] And it happens, I think, in normal life.
[00:13:09 –> 00:13:11] It happens when you’re comparing yourself to, like,
[00:13:11 –> 00:13:13] stuff you see on whatever media.
[00:13:13 –> 00:13:16] But, you know, it even happens with priests and the friars.
[00:13:16 –> 00:13:18] And, like, with this last one, you know,
[00:13:20 –> 00:13:22] I think for me, just kinda getting to,
[00:13:23 –> 00:13:25] and not that this is, like, the core,
[00:13:25 –> 00:13:26] because, like, the core, you know,
[00:13:26 –> 00:13:27] Father Angelus was using the word narratives.
[00:13:27 –> 00:13:30] The core is, like, knowing the ultimate
[00:13:30 –> 00:13:33] sort of defining narrative of our life of being created,
[00:13:33 –> 00:13:37] chosen, you know, purchased by Jesus and His blood.
[00:13:39 –> 00:13:42] You know, and all that stuff.
[00:13:42 –> 00:13:43] But there’s a part of it that just kinda comes to,
[00:13:43 –> 00:13:45] like, “Hey, you know what?
[00:13:45 –> 00:13:47] God has given me something.
[00:13:48 –> 00:13:50] But He also hasn’t given me everything.”
[00:13:50 –> 00:13:52] And I’m, like, if you will, like, one part of the body,
[00:13:52 –> 00:13:55] but there’s no requirement that I, if you will,
[00:13:55 –> 00:13:56] am the whole body.
[00:13:56 –> 00:14:00] And there’s no expectation that, you know,
[00:14:02 –> 00:14:07] that I, whatever, a toe can do everything than an eye can,
[00:14:08 –> 00:14:10] and that’s okay.
[00:14:10 –> 00:14:12] And I have a part to play
[00:14:12 –> 00:14:15] and I’m gonna play my part and I’m gonna offer that.
[00:14:16 –> 00:14:21] And kinda, like, just trust that God knows what He’s doing
[00:14:21 –> 00:14:23] and that if I play my part well,
[00:14:23 –> 00:14:26] it’s gonna serve particular people in a particular way.
[00:14:27 –> 00:14:29] But that other people are gonna connect
[00:14:29 –> 00:14:32] with other people in different places in different ways.
[00:14:34 –> 00:14:35] Serve different purposes.
[00:14:36 –> 00:14:39] And that’s okay because, like, the ultimate thing, again,
[00:14:39 –> 00:14:41] that defines me isn’t the thing that I do,
[00:14:41 –> 00:14:43] isn’t the role that I play,
[00:14:43 –> 00:14:44] isn’t the effectiveness
[00:14:44 –> 00:14:49] of whatever the piety of my spiritual direction.
[00:14:50 –> 00:14:52] I don’t know, like, how have you guys,
[00:14:52 –> 00:14:53] does that resonate at all?
[00:14:53 –> 00:14:54] Are there ways
[00:14:54 –> 00:14:55] in which you guys have kind of gone through
[00:14:55 –> 00:14:58] a similar interior journey?
[00:14:58 –> 00:15:01] Yeah, I mean, it does resonate.
[00:15:01 –> 00:15:02] And not to bring it back to sports,
[00:15:02 –> 00:15:04] but it does loosely connect, I think,
[00:15:04 –> 00:15:06] with those things that we talked about last episode
[00:15:06 –> 00:15:08] where, like, we’re all in this together
[00:15:08 –> 00:15:09] at the end of the day.
[00:15:09 –> 00:15:12] Like, we’re trying to further the kingdom of God,
[00:15:12 –> 00:15:13] we’re trying to further things.
[00:15:13 –> 00:15:16] And so, like, in ministry, it comes up.
[00:15:16 –> 00:15:18] It’s very easy to come up where, like,
[00:15:18 –> 00:15:22] I remember for myself hearing a particular friar preach
[00:15:22 –> 00:15:23] and he’s one of our preaching friars.
[00:15:23 –> 00:15:24] Like, man, that guy’s awesome.
[00:15:24 –> 00:15:26] I wanna be just like him.
[00:15:26 –> 00:15:27] And then, like, kind of, like,
[00:15:27 –> 00:15:29] falsely comparing myself to him
[00:15:29 –> 00:15:31] and, like, trying to do the things that he did
[00:15:31 –> 00:15:34] and just, it would fall flat and inauthentic.
[00:15:34 –> 00:15:35] And I just realized, like, actually,
[00:15:35 –> 00:15:38] I don’t think God’s calling me to be him, be another him,
[00:15:38 –> 00:15:38] but just to be myself.
[00:15:38 –> 00:15:41] And so, yeah.
[00:15:41 –> 00:15:43] But also to recognizing, like, well,
[00:15:43 –> 00:15:45] he’s doing something in a certain sphere
[00:15:45 –> 00:15:46] and, like, in a certain space,
[00:15:46 –> 00:15:48] he has particular gifts
[00:15:48 –> 00:15:50] to talk to a certain group of people,
[00:15:50 –> 00:15:51] or maybe I don’t have those gifts,
[00:15:51 –> 00:15:53] but maybe God wants me to be somewhere else
[00:15:53 –> 00:15:56] and, like, have that to be my quote, unquote, “field”
[00:15:56 –> 00:15:57] that I till in and labor in with Him.
[00:15:57 –> 00:16:00] And so, I think sometimes with the comparison,
[00:16:00 –> 00:16:03] if we look at this as, like, an individual game
[00:16:03 –> 00:16:05] that I have to be better than somebody else,
[00:16:05 –> 00:16:06] then we’re always gonna lose in that,
[00:16:06 –> 00:16:08] because this is not what it’s about.
[00:16:08 –> 00:16:09] Like, the Lord has given each of us,
[00:16:09 –> 00:16:10] as you’re saying, Father Mark-Mary,
[00:16:10 –> 00:16:12] gifts and talents and gifts.
[00:16:12 –> 00:16:13] And it’s gonna look different,
[00:16:13 –> 00:16:17] whatever we do than somebody else, because we’re so unique.
[00:16:17 –> 00:16:19] And are we okay with the uniqueness of another person?
[00:16:19 –> 00:16:22] And there’s a question, you know,
[00:16:22 –> 00:16:23] like Father Innocent was talking about,
[00:16:23 –> 00:16:25] Father Innocent, you prompted him with a story
[00:16:25 –> 00:16:26] of, like, the narrative.
[00:16:26 –> 00:16:28] It’s like, why is that threatening to me?
[00:16:28 –> 00:16:29] You know, and just be curious in that space
[00:16:29 –> 00:16:32] of if we are all on the same team
[00:16:32 –> 00:16:35] and we’re trying to accomplish the same thing,
[00:16:35 –> 00:16:36] whether somebody…
[00:16:36 –> 00:16:38] And even, you saw it in the scriptures
[00:16:38 –> 00:16:41] with the apostles and, like, Peter and Paul
[00:16:41 –> 00:16:41] and, like, all these different things.
[00:16:41 –> 00:16:44] Like, well, like, if he preaches in a certain way
[00:16:44 –> 00:16:46] or, like, he’s using a certain language, like, it’s okay.
[00:16:46 –> 00:16:49] As long as, once again, we’re bringing them to Jesus.
[00:16:50 –> 00:16:52] So just to recognize that in your heart,
[00:16:52 –> 00:16:54] but also just to be curious about, like,
[00:16:54 –> 00:16:55] where that’s coming from,
[00:16:55 –> 00:16:56] like, why I feel like I have to be better
[00:16:56 –> 00:16:58] or why I feel like I have to be that person.
[00:16:58 –> 00:17:01] Can you be okay with being yourself in the gifts
[00:17:01 –> 00:17:04] and the gaps that you have and allowing the Lord
[00:17:04 –> 00:17:06] to be the one that shines through your example?
[00:17:07 –> 00:17:09] And also, too, yeah, just asking where that comes from.
[00:17:09 –> 00:17:12] ‘Cause I think also, too, with the comparison,
[00:17:12 –> 00:17:14] it somehow, like,
[00:17:14 –> 00:17:16] I think there’s some shame involved in there also
[00:17:16 –> 00:17:19] where we are, like, we may not feel better about ourselves
[00:17:19 –> 00:17:20] or good about ourselves in a certain space
[00:17:20 –> 00:17:22] and we compare ourselves unfairly to somebody else.
[00:17:22 –> 00:17:25] And so, then it just causes us to,
[00:17:25 –> 00:17:26] like, feel worse about ourselves
[00:17:26 –> 00:17:29] or maybe we think ourselves better than somebody else
[00:17:29 –> 00:17:30] and makes us feel better about ourselves,
[00:17:30 –> 00:17:32] but obviously that’s rooted in pride.
[00:17:32 –> 00:17:35] So, like, we just never win in the comparison game.
[00:17:35 –> 00:17:36] Like, we’re always walking away worse off
[00:17:36 –> 00:17:38] or just not in the space
[00:17:38 –> 00:17:39] where the Lord sees us as authentically
[00:17:39 –> 00:17:41] and as real as we wanna be seen and known.
[00:17:41 –> 00:17:43] And so, just throw that up there, too.
[00:17:43 –> 00:17:46] And so, yeah.
[00:17:46 –> 00:17:48] Yeah, the only thing I would add
[00:17:48 –> 00:17:50] is just the importance of identity work,
[00:17:50 –> 00:17:54] something that we’ve talked a lot about on this podcast
[00:17:54 –> 00:17:57] that it’s just so worth it to do the work.
[00:17:57 –> 00:17:59] Like, okay, God, who are You?
[00:17:59 –> 00:18:03] And what is, like, spending time
[00:18:03 –> 00:18:05] to really get to know who Jesus is.
[00:18:05 –> 00:18:08] And then in that grace, to know we get to be, like,
[00:18:08 –> 00:18:10] Jesus gets to tell us who we are, right?
[00:18:10 –> 00:18:12] Like, these things don’t accidentally happen
[00:18:12 –> 00:18:16] and especially in a world that is constantly, like,
[00:18:16 –> 00:18:19] competing for our attention,
[00:18:19 –> 00:18:22] but also competing for our identity.
[00:18:22 –> 00:18:24] The world’s constantly telling us who we are
[00:18:24 –> 00:18:26] and what’s gonna make us, like, happy and fulfilled.
[00:18:26 –> 00:18:28] And so, that’s why we have to fight
[00:18:28 –> 00:18:29] the battle for this, right?
[00:18:29 –> 00:18:30] And I think that comes through prayer.
[00:18:30 –> 00:18:33] It comes through, like, authentic relationships
[00:18:33 –> 00:18:35] and communion with God and others.
[00:18:35 –> 00:18:40] But we have to fight this identity battle, right?
[00:18:40 –> 00:18:42] And my heart is just so compassionate and tender
[00:18:42 –> 00:18:44] because I think it runs so deep in all of us.
[00:18:44 –> 00:18:48] And I recently got to gather
[00:18:48 –> 00:18:51] at the Institute for Priestly Formation.
[00:18:51 –> 00:18:53] They’re having their summer program.
[00:18:53 –> 00:18:55] And I just love being with seminarians and blessing them.
[00:18:55 –> 00:18:57] But it’s almost like they just turn,
[00:18:57 –> 00:18:59] yeah, they’ve, like, when you’re leading retreats
[00:18:59 –> 00:19:02] or just having conversations and you bless them
[00:19:02 –> 00:19:03] and you remind them who they are,
[00:19:03 –> 00:19:05] like, something happens, they, like, light up.
[00:19:05 –> 00:19:08] It’s like they melt because we’re starving
[00:19:08 –> 00:19:11] for just someone to tell us who we are, right?
[00:19:11 –> 00:19:14] And so, anyway, I just wanna bless people out there.
[00:19:14 –> 00:19:16] Like, I think it’s a worthy battle.
[00:19:16 –> 00:19:20] It’s something we just need to, like, live and breathe.
[00:19:20 –> 00:19:22] But the truth about who we are
[00:19:22 –> 00:19:25] and that we don’t have to be threatened.
[00:19:25 –> 00:19:27] But I do think it takes a ton of work.
[00:19:27 –> 00:19:31] We have to just be really aware and dialed in
[00:19:31 –> 00:19:33] to know, like, where am I living from?
[00:19:33 –> 00:19:35] What narrative?
[00:19:35 –> 00:19:36] What truth am I living from?
[00:19:36 –> 00:19:40] And then to name things well when I’m actually, like,
[00:19:40 –> 00:19:43] getting hijacked by other people or the world.
[00:19:45 –> 00:19:46] I just think…
[00:19:46 –> 00:19:47] And to be honest, Father Mark-Mary,
[00:19:47 –> 00:19:49] I’m really grateful for your just vulnerability
[00:19:53 –> 00:19:53] in talking about that
[00:19:53 –> 00:19:56] because I think probably one of my core wounds
[00:19:56 –> 00:19:57] is insecurity.
[00:19:57 –> 00:20:01] Like, and so, I often have to, like, take a deep breath
[00:20:01 –> 00:20:05] and when I start to notice myself,
[00:20:06 –> 00:20:07] like, become anxious or afraid,
[00:20:07 –> 00:20:10] or just feel kind of a sadness that, like,
[00:20:10 –> 00:20:13] “Wow, I wish I was like this person,”
[00:20:13 –> 00:20:17] or I don’t feel good enough and I’m looking out there,
[00:20:17 –> 00:20:20] and kind of, like, in that tension,
[00:20:21 –> 00:20:22] I’m just with you, bro.
[00:20:22 –> 00:20:23] I experience it often
[00:20:23 –> 00:20:25] and I think we have a lot of practice
[00:20:25 –> 00:20:27] trying to stay with the Lord.
[00:20:27 –> 00:20:31] But I do think, yeah,
[00:20:31 –> 00:20:35] it could be a daily experience of living our life.
[00:20:35 –> 00:20:37] And maybe to say along with that
[00:20:37 –> 00:20:41] is that I’ve become less and less afraid
[00:20:41 –> 00:20:43] of my poverty there, just to name it,
[00:20:43 –> 00:20:45] and be like, “Okay, Lord, like, I’m just kind of feeling
[00:20:45 –> 00:20:48] in that space of insecurity or comparison
[00:20:48 –> 00:20:49] and I’ve just name it with You”
[00:20:49 –> 00:20:52] and it’s okay that I kind of live in that space of poverty
[00:20:52 –> 00:20:54] and try to keep staying with the Lord.
[00:20:55 –> 00:20:56] We don’t have to freak out.
[00:20:56 –> 00:20:57] We just notice it.
[00:20:57 –> 00:20:58] We try to stay with the Lord.
[00:20:58 –> 00:21:02] And I think the more we practice, we get better.
[00:21:02 –> 00:21:04] Kind of reorienting
[00:21:04 –> 00:21:07] or readjusting our hard-earned perspective in the moment
[00:21:07 –> 00:21:09] as we’ve experienced insecurity.
[00:21:09 –> 00:21:10] And that just really helped me,
[00:21:10 –> 00:21:11] there’s no magic pill.
[00:21:11 –> 00:21:13] I think we just have to keep practicing
[00:21:13 –> 00:21:15] to notice it when we do it
[00:21:15 –> 00:21:19] and to try to, like, reorient ourselves back to the Lord.
[00:21:20 –> 00:21:23] And just to make sure, like, I heard you,
[00:21:23 –> 00:21:26] and if we can kind of expand on it a little bit.
[00:21:27 –> 00:21:30] But also, like, if this is too intimate, let me know.
[00:21:32 –> 00:21:34] But it sounded like you said, like,
[00:21:35 –> 00:21:38] when you experience it and you notice it, like, you name it,
[00:21:38 –> 00:21:40] you kind of remain in the poverty of it with the Lord.
[00:21:42 –> 00:21:43] And I’m sure there’s some sort of prayer
[00:21:43 –> 00:21:44] of inviting Him into it.
[00:21:44 –> 00:21:46] But also there’s, like, some degree of, like,
[00:21:46 –> 00:21:51] acceptance of surrender that this is an area I’m poor.
[00:21:52 –> 00:21:54] And there seems, was that, I hear that right?
[00:21:54 –> 00:21:55] Like, there’s more of a movement of, like,
[00:21:55 –> 00:21:57] being there with the Lord as opposed to,
[00:21:57 –> 00:22:00] like, trying to get out of it?
[00:22:01 –> 00:22:03] Yeah, you heard me 1,000%.
[00:22:03 –> 00:22:04] That’s it.
[00:22:04 –> 00:22:06] I feel like the more,
[00:22:06 –> 00:22:09] when we experience either the insecurity
[00:22:09 –> 00:22:11] and the pain that comes along with that,
[00:22:11 –> 00:22:14] and maybe it can be, like, there’s, like, a heaviness
[00:22:14 –> 00:22:17] or you feel it in your body or your whatever.
[00:22:17 –> 00:22:18] What I’ve learned to be helpful
[00:22:18 –> 00:22:21] is to not try to fix it, overanalyze,
[00:22:21 –> 00:22:23] get in your head about it, get upset.
[00:22:23 –> 00:22:24] Oh, man, here we go again.
[00:22:24 –> 00:22:26] I feel this.
[00:22:26 –> 00:22:27] Get sad, right?
[00:22:27 –> 00:22:29] We kind of go down the self-pity thing.
[00:22:29 –> 00:22:30] That’s all not helpful.
[00:22:30 –> 00:22:31] What’s helpful for me
[00:22:31 –> 00:22:32] is to turn to the Lord and be like,
[00:22:32 –> 00:22:36] “Okay, Lord, you know this is a really deep place in me
[00:22:36 –> 00:22:37] where I’ve experienced, like,
[00:22:37 –> 00:22:38] just a lot of pain and suffering.
[00:22:38 –> 00:22:41] And I just wanna be, like, You see that, Lord.
[00:22:42 –> 00:22:44] I’ve done a lot of work around that
[00:22:44 –> 00:22:47] so I don’t have to, like, hate myself.
[00:22:47 –> 00:22:50] I mean, like, yeah, this is just a part of, like,
[00:22:50 –> 00:22:51] what I carry.
[00:22:51 –> 00:22:54] I think it’s maybe, again, like a thorn in my side.
[00:22:54 –> 00:22:56] Like, this is just my experience.
[00:22:56 –> 00:23:00] And so, Lord, I know I’ve given this to You 1,000 times.
[00:23:00 –> 00:23:02] I give it to You again.
[00:23:02 –> 00:23:04] And I choose to, like, let myself be loved by You here.
[00:23:04 –> 00:23:06] Like, You see me, You love me.”
[00:23:08 –> 00:23:13] And then in that poverty, what happens is I can just stay.
[00:23:14 –> 00:23:16] I can just be poor
[00:23:16 –> 00:23:20] and I feel like, I mean, the Lord always comes, right?
[00:23:22 –> 00:23:24] The beatitude of being poor, it’s like, okay, like,
[00:23:24 –> 00:23:26] I’m just gonna be poor here.
[00:23:26 –> 00:23:29] And Jesus is just always good to me.
[00:23:29 –> 00:23:30] And so, the grace comes to do
[00:23:30 –> 00:23:33] whatever I’m doing to stay in spiritual direction and stay,
[00:23:33 –> 00:23:36] I mean, I was just at IPF with 120 seminarians
[00:23:36 –> 00:23:39] and 33 priests that are, like, all rocking it
[00:23:39 –> 00:23:42] and, like, living their priesthood in their prime.
[00:23:42 –> 00:23:44] Then I’m like, “Okay, Lord, like,
[00:23:44 –> 00:23:46] I’m gonna just stay with You because,”
[00:23:47 –> 00:23:49] and I preach in front of them and that’s when I feel it.
[00:23:49 –> 00:23:51] I’m like, “Oh gosh, what am I doing, Lord?”
[00:23:51 –> 00:23:55] And I just do exactly what I just do
[00:23:56 –> 00:23:57] and try to stay with Him.
[00:23:59 –> 00:24:04] And He just, His face and His heart is my anchor there.
[00:24:04 –> 00:24:09] And yeah, and it’s okay to be poor, it’s okay to be poor.
[00:24:10 –> 00:24:13] And I appreciate that because I,
[00:24:13 –> 00:24:14] and I appreciate, again,
[00:24:14 –> 00:24:16] you being willing to kind of invite us
[00:24:16 –> 00:24:20] into this part of your life, you know?
[00:24:22 –> 00:24:26] But what I just noted, and I think I believe
[00:24:26 –> 00:24:31] and try to practice as well is, like, I don’t know,
[00:24:31 –> 00:24:32] like, there’s, especially in youth,
[00:24:32 –> 00:24:35] there’s, like, a fix it mentality, okay, of, like,
[00:24:35 –> 00:24:36] make this go away.
[00:24:37 –> 00:24:38] Make it stop.
[00:24:38 –> 00:24:40] And I understand it
[00:24:40 –> 00:24:42] because we don’t like the way this thing feels.
[00:24:43 –> 00:24:46] And also I understand it from the idea of, like,
[00:24:46 –> 00:24:49] well, this is something that is, like, an imperfection,
[00:24:49 –> 00:24:51] a vulnerability.
[00:24:51 –> 00:24:55] Well, like, shouldn’t I want to have it perfected?
[00:24:55 –> 00:24:57] And shouldn’t I want to have strength there
[00:24:57 –> 00:25:01] and to make sort of this openness,
[00:25:01 –> 00:25:03] this vulnerability go away?
[00:25:03 –> 00:25:05] And I don’t know, like, sometimes, yeah,
[00:25:05 –> 00:25:08] and a lot of times, no, you know, like,
[00:25:08 –> 00:25:10] I’m more and more convinced
[00:25:10 –> 00:25:14] that kind of acceptance and surrender
[00:25:14 –> 00:25:17] instead of, like, solve it, you know,
[00:25:17 –> 00:25:20] are just a lot more of the spiritual journey
[00:25:20 –> 00:25:22] and, like, what spiritual growth looks like.
[00:25:22 –> 00:25:23] Yeah, definitely.
[00:25:23 –> 00:25:26] But I also just get, like, a lot of people
[00:25:28 –> 00:25:32] have a hard time with that, so I don’t know.
[00:25:32 –> 00:25:36] Yeah, and I think the surrender, it’s always tough.
[00:25:38 –> 00:25:39] I think it’s, once again, because of, like,
[00:25:39 –> 00:25:43] our personalities, also our experiences
[00:25:43 –> 00:25:47] where sometimes, not sometimes, again,
[00:25:47 –> 00:25:48] it’s just difficult to get to that place,
[00:25:48 –> 00:25:50] difficult to get to that place of,
[00:25:50 –> 00:25:51] “All right, Lord, this is where I’m at
[00:25:51 –> 00:25:53] and you see me and know me in this place
[00:25:53 –> 00:25:55] even though it doesn’t feel like that,
[00:25:55 –> 00:25:58] even though I want this to be totally different.”
[00:25:58 –> 00:26:00] And yeah, and it’s just a lot,
[00:26:01 –> 00:26:04] it’s a lot better of a way to move forward
[00:26:04 –> 00:26:05] as opposed to, like, trying to fight it
[00:26:05 –> 00:26:06] and fix something we can’t fix
[00:26:06 –> 00:26:07] and we feel frustrated about it
[00:26:07 –> 00:26:09] and all these different competing emotions come in
[00:26:09 –> 00:26:11] and just makes us feel like we’re going backwards
[00:26:11 –> 00:26:12] as opposed to going forward.
[00:26:14 –> 00:26:16] Something super simple, I think, just to show,
[00:26:16 –> 00:26:19] this was a couple days ago,
[00:26:19 –> 00:26:22] I was just in a place, and as community life happens,
[00:26:22 –> 00:26:25] I got in the car, I get to the place, got to the place,
[00:26:25 –> 00:26:26] but then I realized, like,
[00:26:26 –> 00:26:28] I’m on empty because the brother before me
[00:26:28 –> 00:26:31] just forgot to fill the car up with gas.
[00:26:31 –> 00:26:34] And so, but I’m in the city and it’s like, “Okay, whatever.”
[00:26:34 –> 00:26:35] And so, like, I was leaving,
[00:26:35 –> 00:26:37] I was like, “Yeah, I hope I get home safe.”
[00:26:37 –> 00:26:38] And then somebody was like, “Oh, why?”
[00:26:38 –> 00:26:41] It’s like, “Ah, whatever, there’s no gas in the car.”
[00:26:41 –> 00:26:42] And they’re like, “Aren’t you worried about that?”
[00:26:42 –> 00:26:44] I was like, “Nah, not really. We’ll see what happens.
[00:26:44 –> 00:26:46] Worst case scenario, I, like, walk back.”
[00:26:46 –> 00:26:48] And like, “But that’s hard.”
[00:26:48 –> 00:26:49] I was like, “Eh, we’ll see.”
[00:26:49 –> 00:26:51] And the person’s like, “I’d be freaking out right now.”
[00:26:51 –> 00:26:53] I was like, “Well, like, what am I gonna do?
[00:26:53 –> 00:26:55] You know, like, I could try to drive to the,
[00:26:55 –> 00:26:56] I’m gonna drive.”
[00:26:56 –> 00:26:57] And I drove to the nearest gas station.
[00:26:57 –> 00:27:00] But, like, there’s a thing, like, I can try to,
[00:27:00 –> 00:27:02] like, I could either rest in the place of, like,
[00:27:02 –> 00:27:03] “Well, we’ll see what happens,”
[00:27:03 –> 00:27:06] or and trust that it’s gonna somehow work out,
[00:27:06 –> 00:27:08] or I could freak out about it
[00:27:08 –> 00:27:10] and, like, be in this place of anxiety
[00:27:10 –> 00:27:11] that I actually can’t do anything about it
[00:27:11 –> 00:27:13] until I hop in the car and go.
[00:27:14 –> 00:27:15] I just think it’s,
[00:27:15 –> 00:27:16] and once again, it’s a personality thing,
[00:27:16 –> 00:27:19] I think, also, too, of yeah, just, like,
[00:27:19 –> 00:27:22] how you see the world and receive the world.
[00:27:22 –> 00:27:24] But, like, I think sometimes where we just have
[00:27:24 –> 00:27:27] to allow Jesus to be in the car with us,
[00:27:27 –> 00:27:29] to be with us in this space of, like,
[00:27:29 –> 00:27:30] “Hey, I’m running out of gas
[00:27:30 –> 00:27:32] and hey, can You help me get to the next place?”
[00:27:32 –> 00:27:34] As opposed to being outside the car worrying about it,
[00:27:34 –> 00:27:36] freaking out, making plans,
[00:27:36 –> 00:27:39] and we still don’t have anything to do.
[00:27:39 –> 00:27:43] And so, sometimes in these spaces of insecurity
[00:27:43 –> 00:27:45] or whatever the wound is just, like,
[00:27:45 –> 00:27:47] how does the Lord wanna, to move that for you
[00:27:47 –> 00:27:49] and to be the one to tell you, like,
[00:27:49 –> 00:27:50] “Hey, you’re gonna get to the gas station.
[00:27:50 –> 00:27:51] It’s gonna be okay.”
[00:27:51 –> 00:27:53] As opposed to just, like, making plans
[00:27:53 –> 00:27:55] outside of the car and not doing anything.
[00:27:57 –> 00:27:59] And I guess I wanna clarify a little bit,
[00:27:59 –> 00:27:59] like, with a both/and,
[00:27:59 –> 00:28:03] because I think, like you talked about,
[00:28:03 –> 00:28:06] Father Innocent, like, doing identity work,
[00:28:06 –> 00:28:08] like, you know, the work of prayer
[00:28:08 –> 00:28:11] and some of the other areas of, like,
[00:28:11 –> 00:28:14] having as firmly rooted of as an identity as possible.
[00:28:15 –> 00:28:18] However, like, there’s not a guarantee
[00:28:18 –> 00:28:23] that we’re gonna be able to do it perfectly
[00:28:23 –> 00:28:25] and completely, you know?
[00:28:25 –> 00:28:26] So so we do the work,
[00:28:26 –> 00:28:31] but also we kind of accept in a certain sense
[00:28:31 –> 00:28:34] and surrender, like, the outcome.
[00:28:34 –> 00:28:37] And part, I think a lot of this comes to recognizing,
[00:28:37 –> 00:28:39] like, you used the word poverty,
[00:28:39 –> 00:28:42] like, what is and what is not within my power,
[00:28:42 –> 00:28:45] what is and what is not within my circle of influence.
[00:28:45 –> 00:28:46] And there’s just a lot more in our life, I think,
[00:28:46 –> 00:28:49] that, like, well, I can’t, you know,
[00:28:49 –> 00:28:51] God’s doing something else
[00:28:51 –> 00:28:54] and He’s allowing this to remain for this period of time,
[00:28:54 –> 00:28:55] and I’ve invited Him into it.
[00:28:57 –> 00:29:02] I’ve responded how I think I’m being called to respond,
[00:29:02 –> 00:29:03] but it’s still a reality here.
[00:29:03 –> 00:29:06] And so, this is an area for me to accept and surrender
[00:29:06 –> 00:29:08] and to trust almost like in a St. Paul way,
[00:29:08 –> 00:29:11] like, this is an area where His power
[00:29:11 –> 00:29:13] can be perfected in my poverty or in my weakness.
[00:29:16 –> 00:29:19] And one more thing just on the original kind of, like,
[00:29:19 –> 00:29:19] main theme of the episode
[00:29:19 –> 00:29:21] on the comparison, insecurity thing.
[00:29:21 –> 00:29:25] Like, you know, there’s a lot of sayings out there
[00:29:25 –> 00:29:27] about, like, comparison being the thief of joy
[00:29:27 –> 00:29:28] and all this sort of stuff.
[00:29:28 –> 00:29:31] And I think and I do, like, agree with that.
[00:29:34 –> 00:29:36] But I think there’s, like, some more nuance
[00:29:36 –> 00:29:37] because I don’t think…
[00:29:39 –> 00:29:43] First of all, like, I don’t think removing
[00:29:43 –> 00:29:46] from all aspects of our life any form of comparison
[00:29:46 –> 00:29:47] is realistic.
[00:29:47 –> 00:29:49] I think it’s a natural thing that happens
[00:29:49 –> 00:29:50] as you encounter other people.
[00:29:52 –> 00:29:54] But also, I don’t think that,
[00:29:55 –> 00:29:58] I think there’s value to being edified
[00:29:58 –> 00:30:00] by the virtue of another
[00:30:00 –> 00:30:05] and being edified by what God is doing in another.
[00:30:05 –> 00:30:07] And there’s a way in which for that to happen,
[00:30:07 –> 00:30:08] we have to see them.
[00:30:09 –> 00:30:12] But in seeing them and seeing what the unique thing
[00:30:12 –> 00:30:13] that’s happening good in their life,
[00:30:13 –> 00:30:16] there is I think just a natural, like,
[00:30:16 –> 00:30:18] some sort of comparison.
[00:30:18 –> 00:30:20] Certainly, I do think there’s a difference
[00:30:20 –> 00:30:23] between seeing like, “Oh, like, that guy’s tall
[00:30:23 –> 00:30:24] and I’m not tall”
[00:30:24 –> 00:30:29] or, “Wow, that guy, like, was really concise and clear
[00:30:29 –> 00:30:32] and knows a lot of languages and I don’t.”
[00:30:32 –> 00:30:36] Like, then to, like, so that can happen,
[00:30:36 –> 00:30:37] we accept, we surrender,
[00:30:37 –> 00:30:40] we do the identity work, we know who we are,
[00:30:40 –> 00:30:42] we learn how to invite Jesus into poverty.
[00:30:42 –> 00:30:47] But also like we don’t feed it more than we have to, right?
[00:30:47 –> 00:30:49] And this is a little bit of a discipline.
[00:30:49 –> 00:30:52] It is a little bit of a grace of like, okay,
[00:30:52 –> 00:30:54] here’s this thing that’s happening in this person’s life,
[00:30:54 –> 00:30:56] here’s their marriage, here’s their state in life,
[00:30:56 –> 00:30:58] here’s what their house looks like,
[00:30:58 –> 00:31:00] here’s all that sort of stuff,
[00:31:00 –> 00:31:01] and I’m gonna like dwell on it
[00:31:01 –> 00:31:03] or I’m gonna intentionally feed it
[00:31:03 –> 00:31:07] by scrolling on things or looking at things
[00:31:07 –> 00:31:09] which like bring it up
[00:31:09 –> 00:31:11] and make it front and center in a way
[00:31:11 –> 00:31:14] that’s like actually very easily avoidable and not helpful.
[00:31:15 –> 00:31:17] And so, I do think there is some wiggle room.
[00:31:17 –> 00:31:22] We do wanna avoid sort of the critical comparison,
[00:31:22 –> 00:31:24] the accusatory comparison.
[00:31:24 –> 00:31:25] We wanna be open to being edified
[00:31:25 –> 00:31:28] and moved by what God is doing to other people’s lives.
[00:31:28 –> 00:31:29] We don’t wanna overly feed it.
[00:31:32 –> 00:31:33] So, I don’t know.
[00:31:33 –> 00:31:34] That’s kind of, I think,
[00:31:34 –> 00:31:36] a little bit of a filling out of it.
[00:31:37 –> 00:31:39] But also, like, in some of our formation,
[00:31:39 –> 00:31:40] we talk about, like,
[00:31:40 –> 00:31:43] “Hey, like the thing that you’re doing,
[00:31:43 –> 00:31:45] are you seeing anybody else do it?”
[00:31:45 –> 00:31:46] Like, so there is like,
[00:31:46 –> 00:31:49] there is some degree of self-knowledge
[00:31:49 –> 00:31:52] in the context of community, which is also helpful,
[00:31:52 –> 00:31:55] which could be considered a fruit of comparison.
[00:31:58 –> 00:32:01] But I think people are hearing what I’m saying.
[00:32:01 –> 00:32:02] Yeah, and I agree with you, bro.
[00:32:02 –> 00:32:04] I think it’s a great point and I think it’s a part of,
[00:32:04 –> 00:32:07] I think we just have to hold the space of that.
[00:32:07 –> 00:32:09] And I think we live in relationship,
[00:32:09 –> 00:32:12] so we always are living the reality
[00:32:12 –> 00:32:14] that you’re different than me
[00:32:14 –> 00:32:16] and I’m taking that in, you’re taking it in.
[00:32:16 –> 00:32:19] And so, I think it’s a great…
[00:32:19 –> 00:32:22] I mean, I think that’s why when we read the saints
[00:32:22 –> 00:32:24] like, when I read about Saint Francis,
[00:32:24 –> 00:32:27] I’m like, “Okay, I’m not that.” (laughs)
[00:32:27 –> 00:32:30] And so, there’s something beautiful to know that like,
[00:32:30 –> 00:32:33] okay, does that send me into self-contempt
[00:32:33 –> 00:32:35] or does that send me into inspiration?
[00:32:35 –> 00:32:40] That’s obviously a small, kind of like a broad example.
[00:32:40 –> 00:32:42] But I think just holding the space
[00:32:42 –> 00:32:46] of how we live in relationship and noting when it turns,
[00:32:48 –> 00:32:49] when it turns into myself
[00:32:49 –> 00:32:52] and it turns into this unhealthy space
[00:32:52 –> 00:32:54] where I’m hurting myself or getting stuck in myself
[00:32:54 –> 00:32:58] or letting the narrative loops kind of consume me.
[00:32:59 –> 00:33:00] But I don’t think we can get rid of it.
[00:33:00 –> 00:33:02] I just think we have to live
[00:33:02 –> 00:33:04] and hold this space in a healthy way.
[00:33:04 –> 00:33:06] And that’s what I think in the poverty, bro.
[00:33:06 –> 00:33:11] That’s why I think it’s just okay that, again,
[00:33:14 –> 00:33:17] it’s okay that we just constantly have to like hold this.
[00:33:17 –> 00:33:18] We don’t, we’re not gonna, like,
[00:33:18 –> 00:33:21] we don’t have to conquer it or get rid of it or fix it,
[00:33:21 –> 00:33:24] I think we just have to hold how we live in relationships
[00:33:24 –> 00:33:27] with ourselves and other people in comparison
[00:33:27 –> 00:33:28] is just a part of it.
[00:33:28 –> 00:33:30] And so, that’s why, like, poverty,
[00:33:31 –> 00:33:33] I just think it’s a good place to be
[00:33:33 –> 00:33:33] where it’s like, okay,
[00:33:33 –> 00:33:37] I’m just gonna like experience my daily life
[00:33:37 –> 00:33:40] and I’m just gonna try to stay open and stay poor
[00:33:40 –> 00:33:42] and stay humble and keep centered on the Lord
[00:33:42 –> 00:33:44] and just kinda go with it.
[00:33:44 –> 00:33:46] It’s almost like holding it lightly
[00:33:46 –> 00:33:47] instead of making, like you said,
[00:33:47 –> 00:33:49] making such a big deal about it.
[00:33:51 –> 00:33:52] Yes to all that.
[00:33:52 –> 00:33:54] And last thing I’ll add is just something simple of, like,
[00:33:54 –> 00:33:57] whenever I find myself in this comparison loop
[00:33:57 –> 00:33:58] or just looking at myself
[00:33:58 –> 00:34:00] and it’s the negative part of it,
[00:34:02 –> 00:34:04] just trying my best to catch it,
[00:34:04 –> 00:34:06] to recognize it, to name it,
[00:34:06 –> 00:34:07] but then also just to ask a simple question,
[00:34:07 –> 00:34:09] like, does my Father say this about me?
[00:34:09 –> 00:34:11] Like, does He look at me in comparison
[00:34:11 –> 00:34:14] to Father Innocent or in comparison to Father Mark-Mary?
[00:34:14 –> 00:34:16] And then that quickly, like, “Oh, He doesn’t.”
[00:34:16 –> 00:34:18] And, like, just makes things concrete and real
[00:34:18 –> 00:34:21] where, like, we’re incomparable.
[00:34:21 –> 00:34:22] And the Father doesn’t look at us
[00:34:22 –> 00:34:23] and compare us to anybody else.
[00:34:23 –> 00:34:25] And so, yeah.
[00:34:25 –> 00:34:27] So just to rest there also too,
[00:34:27 –> 00:34:29] or maybe use that as a way of just getting out of it
[00:34:29 –> 00:34:31] and just bringing it back to God
[00:34:31 –> 00:34:35] and allowing Him to speak the truths of you to you
[00:34:35 –> 00:34:37] and not worry about, like,
[00:34:37 –> 00:34:39] what other people, like,
[00:34:39 –> 00:34:40] how they’re moving or how they are,
[00:34:40 –> 00:34:44] and how that takes away any sort of giftedness that you have
[00:34:44 –> 00:34:47] or is not, yeah, you’re not as good
[00:34:47 –> 00:34:49] or whatever it is that you fall into.
[00:34:49 –> 00:34:50] But just to bring it back to the Lord
[00:34:50 –> 00:34:52] and allow Him to speak to you in that space.
[00:34:55 –> 00:34:56] Amen to all that.
[00:34:56 –> 00:34:57] Amen.
[00:34:58 –> 00:34:59] All right.
[00:34:59 –> 00:35:02] Would somebody be able to close with a prayer?
[00:35:02 –> 00:35:04] Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, amen.
[00:35:04 –> 00:35:06] Jesus, we love You and adore You and thank You.
[00:35:06 –> 00:35:11] And we choose You to be just the center of who we are.
[00:35:11 –> 00:35:15] And we ask Your face and Your words
[00:35:15 –> 00:35:18] and Your love to define us and remind us who we are,
[00:35:18 –> 00:35:20] and just help us to navigate these spaces
[00:35:20 –> 00:35:24] when we suffer a comparison or insecurity
[00:35:24 –> 00:35:25] that we would be given the grace today
[00:35:25 –> 00:35:29] to turn back to You and that You could, again, remind us
[00:35:29 –> 00:35:31] what the Father says about us.
[00:35:31 –> 00:35:34] We ask this all through Christ, our Lord, amen.
[00:35:34 –> 00:35:35] Amen.
[00:35:36 –> 00:35:37] Father, Son,
[00:35:37 –> 00:35:39] Holy Spirit, amen. – Holy Spirit, amen.
[00:35:40 –> 00:35:41] All right.
[00:35:41 –> 00:35:43] Shout out to Jesus.
[00:35:43 –> 00:35:45] We love Jesus.
[00:35:45 –> 00:35:48] Shout out also to Mike and Janine McGahn.
[00:35:48 –> 00:35:50] Yeah. Awesome.
[00:35:51 –> 00:35:53] Great. All right.
[00:35:53 –> 00:35:54] Shout out to Father Angelus.
[00:35:54 –> 00:35:57] Thanks for putting in a couple of good innings.
[00:35:57 –> 00:35:58] He got his shots up.
[00:35:58 –> 00:35:59] He said coach him out.
[00:36:00 –> 00:36:01] Yeah.
[00:36:01 –> 00:36:03] We look forward to putting him to work next game.
[00:36:03 –> 00:36:04] See you next time.
[00:36:04 –> 00:36:06] All right. – Peace everybody, bye.
[00:36:06 –> 00:36:10] (bright pleasant music) (singer singing in Spanish)
[00:36:10 –> 00:36:11] ♪ And you know that’s who we ♪