[00:00:00 –> 00:00:01] Hey, Father Mark-Mary here.
[00:00:01 –> 00:00:03] I wanted to pause for just a moment
[00:00:03 –> 00:00:07] and thank all of you who helped make the Poco A Poco Podcast
[00:00:07 –> 00:00:10] possible through listening, through your prayers,
[00:00:10 –> 00:00:12] through sharing it, through spreading the word,
[00:00:12 –> 00:00:15] and in particular this moment through your generosity.
[00:00:15 –> 00:00:17] Every episode we share is the fruit
[00:00:17 –> 00:00:20] of many generous hearts and hands.
[00:00:20 –> 00:00:22] So thank you everybody.
[00:00:22 –> 00:00:25] So if you feel moved to perhaps join in the mission,
[00:00:25 –> 00:00:28] support the mission by giving a one-time gift
[00:00:28 –> 00:00:31] or by becoming a monthly donor, we’d be so grateful.
[00:00:31 –> 00:00:35] You can give at spiritjuice.org/pocoapoco
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[00:00:37 –> 00:00:38] God bless y’all.
[00:00:40 –> 00:00:42] You’re listening to the Poco A Poco podcast,
[00:00:42 –> 00:00:45] sponsored by Spirit Juice Studios.
[00:00:45 –> 00:00:48] (singer singing in foreign language)
[00:00:48 –> 00:00:49] ♪ And you know that’s who we are ♪
[00:00:49 –> 00:00:51] ♪ We make our way ♪
[00:00:51 –> 00:00:53] Hey, I’m Father Mark-Mary.
[00:00:54 –> 00:00:56] Hey, I’m Father Innocent.
[00:00:56 –> 00:00:59] I’m Father PT. – Hey everyone.
[00:00:59 –> 00:01:02] Father Angelus here yet again.
[00:01:04 –> 00:01:08] And this is the Poco A Poco Podcast.
[00:01:09 –> 00:01:11] And, all right.
[00:01:13 –> 00:01:14] This is good.
[00:01:14 –> 00:01:15] It’s good to be with you guys.
[00:01:15 –> 00:01:19] It feels like people are in good moods.
[00:01:21 –> 00:01:22] Yeah, yeah. – Good attitudes.
[00:01:22 –> 00:01:23] It’s always nice. – Good attitudes.
[00:01:23 –> 00:01:26] I wonder if people like the fact
[00:01:26 –> 00:01:28] that we had a guest like Father Gregory Pine.
[00:01:28 –> 00:01:30] I still thought that was really fun.
[00:01:32 –> 00:01:35] Yeah, and that’s one of the upsides
[00:01:35 –> 00:01:38] of us now just being audio remote
[00:01:39 –> 00:01:42] is we can have like, it’s just not
[00:01:42 –> 00:01:43] as big of a thing to have guests.
[00:01:45 –> 00:01:47] So I’d like to try and do that a little bit more,
[00:01:47 –> 00:01:48] but we just have to figure out, ’cause the trick is
[00:01:48 –> 00:01:53] to not have having a guest on change the whole genre
[00:01:53 –> 00:01:56] of the podcast where it kind of becomes an interview
[00:01:56 –> 00:02:01] or like a class and so it’s on us to like figure out how
[00:02:02 –> 00:02:05] to do it in a way where it still feels conversational.
[00:02:05 –> 00:02:07] I thought it was a strong start with Father Gregory.
[00:02:07 –> 00:02:10] I thought it had that same feel, he just fit in.
[00:02:10 –> 00:02:12] He didn’t like take over, you know?
[00:02:12 –> 00:02:13] Right, right.
[00:02:14 –> 00:02:14] Yeah, anyway.
[00:02:17 –> 00:02:19] The emphasis, sort of the quote I picked,
[00:02:19 –> 00:02:21] I thought kind of fit in with our stuff.
[00:02:22 –> 00:02:25] But now let’s get to the serious business here.
[00:02:26 –> 00:02:28] All right. – Here we go.
[00:02:28 –> 00:02:29] I have a question for everybody.
[00:02:29 –> 00:02:31] Hmm. – And the question is this,
[00:02:31 –> 00:02:35] and this is, we’re gonna be ranking in order
[00:02:35 –> 00:02:38] of how like the thing we would be best at,
[00:02:38 –> 00:02:40] the thing we’d be worst at.
[00:02:40 –> 00:02:41] Oh wow.
[00:02:44 –> 00:02:47] So anyway, the long story short is somebody
[00:02:47 –> 00:02:52] after mass the other day gave me roses for our Lady.
[00:02:53 –> 00:02:56] And so I took them and put them in a vase
[00:02:56 –> 00:03:00] and it made me think about, I’m not, it was as simple
[00:03:00 –> 00:03:02] as like putting the roses in a vase
[00:03:02 –> 00:03:03] and then putting ’em in front of our Lady
[00:03:03 –> 00:03:07] and there was like, it wasn’t something I was like great at.
[00:03:07 –> 00:03:09] And it was like a very basic thing.
[00:03:09 –> 00:03:12] So the order of this is like which would you be the best at?
[00:03:12 –> 00:03:14] And which would be the middle and the worst?
[00:03:14 –> 00:03:18] The three things are this, wrapping presents.
[00:03:18 –> 00:03:20] I think wrapping presents is the right one.
[00:03:20 –> 00:03:21] We could change it to making a bed,
[00:03:21 –> 00:03:24] but I think we’re going with wrapping presents.
[00:03:24 –> 00:03:27] Arrange like making a floral arrangement.
[00:03:27 –> 00:03:30] So a number of different flowers in a vase
[00:03:30 –> 00:03:32] and making a charcuterie board.
[00:03:35 –> 00:03:36] So is it what would you be the worst at?
[00:03:36 –> 00:03:39] You just gotta rank ’em from best to worst
[00:03:39 –> 00:03:40] or worst to best.
[00:03:40 –> 00:03:41] Either way.
[00:03:42 –> 00:03:44] I gotta write this down, sorry.
[00:03:44 –> 00:03:45] Yeah, what’s our options?
[00:03:45 –> 00:03:47] What is it, flowers, charcuterie board
[00:03:47 –> 00:03:48] and what’s the first one?
[00:03:50 –> 00:03:52] Wrapping presents.
[00:03:52 –> 00:03:54] Oh, interesting.
[00:03:54 –> 00:03:55] All right definitely,
[00:03:55 –> 00:03:57] I could kill a charcuterie board, absolutely.
[00:04:01 –> 00:04:04] Wrapping presents, floral arrangement.
[00:04:04 –> 00:04:05] That’s exactly mine too, Ang.
[00:04:05 –> 00:04:07] That would not be good.
[00:04:07 –> 00:04:08] Your floral arrangement.
[00:04:08 –> 00:04:09] The thing is that all of them would be good.
[00:04:09 –> 00:04:12] But if I had to think.
[00:04:12 –> 00:04:14] That’s kinda why, because I feel like there
[00:04:14 –> 00:04:15] and I feel like there’s something similar
[00:04:15 –> 00:04:16] but a little bit different.
[00:04:16 –> 00:04:18] You feel like you can do all of them well?
[00:04:18 –> 00:04:19] Probably.
[00:04:19 –> 00:04:21] Have you done a flower arrangement before?
[00:04:21 –> 00:04:23] Yeah. – Okay.
[00:04:23 –> 00:04:24] Father innocent.
[00:04:24 –> 00:04:25] You would say the exact same order?
[00:04:25 –> 00:04:26] Yeah, I would say the exact same order,
[00:04:26 –> 00:04:28] but I also don’t have a lot
[00:04:28 –> 00:04:30] of confidence in my floral arrangements.
[00:04:30 –> 00:04:33] I lived with Brother Kolby for seven years
[00:04:33 –> 00:04:35] and he just rocked that.
[00:04:35 –> 00:04:38] So I don’t have a lot of experience,
[00:04:38 –> 00:04:40] but I would go the same order for sure.
[00:04:40 –> 00:04:41] Okay.
[00:04:43 –> 00:04:44] Hmm.
[00:04:44 –> 00:04:46] I think, huh.
[00:04:49 –> 00:04:52] I mean, I’m not comfortable in any of these things.
[00:04:52 –> 00:04:54] So, just to say that. – It’s okay, bro.
[00:04:54 –> 00:04:55] Hey, look at me bro.
[00:04:55 –> 00:04:56] It’s all right, it’s okay.
[00:04:56 –> 00:04:58] I’m not, this is not a place of insecure,
[00:04:58 –> 00:04:59] I’m just saying I’m just not comfortable
[00:04:59 –> 00:05:01] doing any of these things.
[00:05:01 –> 00:05:04] So I’m gonna go heart not head here.
[00:05:04 –> 00:05:07] Hmm. – I gonna go
[00:05:07 –> 00:05:10] the best thing I can do of those three things,
[00:05:10 –> 00:05:13] which may not be true anyway, I’m gonna say
[00:05:13 –> 00:05:16] the present wrapping, floral arrangement
[00:05:16 –> 00:05:20] and charcuterie board. – Charcuterie last.
[00:05:20 –> 00:05:25] Yeah, just, I mean I, so I’ve made one
[00:05:25 –> 00:05:28] with Father Gabriel Emanuel.
[00:05:28 –> 00:05:30] I just realized there’s levels to it.
[00:05:30 –> 00:05:32] You know, like, he’s like, he’s very like, we need
[00:05:32 –> 00:05:35] to get this cracker or these things or these fruits.
[00:05:35 –> 00:05:37] And I just don’t have that much experience
[00:05:37 –> 00:05:39] of eating them/preparing them.
[00:05:39 –> 00:05:42] So I don’t know what would pair well with other things.
[00:05:42 –> 00:05:44] And like flowers, I feel like I could kind of
[00:05:44 –> 00:05:45] cobble together something
[00:05:45 –> 00:05:47] and I’ve just had more experience of like,
[00:05:47 –> 00:05:50] at least covering books or covering boxes.
[00:05:50 –> 00:05:51] And so I feel like I could do
[00:05:51 –> 00:05:54] the whole present wrapping thing the best.
[00:05:54 –> 00:05:56] You went through like a wrapping thing phase.
[00:05:56 –> 00:05:58] Yeah, you remember this. – Yeah.
[00:05:58 –> 00:06:01] Yeah. – Yeah, that’s a good point.
[00:06:02 –> 00:06:04] Good point. – Have you done
[00:06:04 –> 00:06:05] flowers before?
[00:06:05 –> 00:06:08] No, but I’m the gardener here.
[00:06:08 –> 00:06:12] And so actually I’m gonna go plant after this podcast.
[00:06:12 –> 00:06:14] Okay flex. – I mean, it’s not a flex.
[00:06:14 –> 00:06:15] You asked me flowers before.
[00:06:15 –> 00:06:17] I’m just answering your question buddy.
[00:06:17 –> 00:06:19] You’re the one who brought this thing up.
[00:06:19 –> 00:06:21] Dude, I’m literally the florist right now.
[00:06:21 –> 00:06:22] That’s what I heard you say.
[00:06:25 –> 00:06:26] I like the making the bed idea.
[00:06:26 –> 00:06:27] That’s an interesting one.
[00:06:28 –> 00:06:31] Do you think that would that affect your list?
[00:06:31 –> 00:06:33] Like, so we’re talking about like fancy bed
[00:06:33 –> 00:06:35] with throw pillows. – Yeah, yeah.
[00:06:35 –> 00:06:36] We’re not talking about, I make my bed every day.
[00:06:36 –> 00:06:38] We’re talking about like preparing for guests.
[00:06:41 –> 00:06:43] But like in like a house, not a friary.
[00:06:44 –> 00:06:46] Oh, – I’m trash at it.
[00:06:46 –> 00:06:48] I would be a B, B+ with that.
[00:06:48 –> 00:06:50] Probably not, I would excel.
[00:06:50 –> 00:06:52] How about in a friary for like a guest?
[00:06:52 –> 00:06:54] Yeah, I could do that.
[00:06:54 –> 00:06:56] But I live with Brother Joshua
[00:06:56 –> 00:06:58] who definitely ups his game.
[00:06:59 –> 00:07:02] He makes like animals outta towels and things like that.
[00:07:02 –> 00:07:04] This one’s good, how would you fold your towels?
[00:07:05 –> 00:07:09] Just regularly. – Like a square or rectangle.
[00:07:09 –> 00:07:11] And brother Joshua has gifts.
[00:07:11 –> 00:07:13] The charcuterie boards that he makes are incredible.
[00:07:13 –> 00:07:15] He like makes flowers with the sausage.
[00:07:18 –> 00:07:19] Interesting. – There’s levels.
[00:07:19 –> 00:07:21] There are, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:07:21 –> 00:07:23] Interesting. – What about you?
[00:07:26 –> 00:07:28] I think by far
[00:07:29 –> 00:07:31] I think I would excel
[00:07:32 –> 00:07:33] with a charcuterie board.
[00:07:35 –> 00:07:36] But that’s interesting
[00:07:36 –> 00:07:38] ’cause you’re not really like a food type of guy.
[00:07:39 –> 00:07:42] No, I’m not.
[00:07:42 –> 00:07:44] But I have like, that’s like why it comes up.
[00:07:44 –> 00:07:45] And I think it’s interesting is like,
[00:07:45 –> 00:07:47] ’cause there’s certain spaces where like I have
[00:07:47 –> 00:07:49] a very, very good eye and clarity
[00:07:49 –> 00:07:51] about like quality and taste
[00:07:51 –> 00:07:53] and like what works and what doesn’t.
[00:07:53 –> 00:07:55] And then like with visual thing.
[00:07:55 –> 00:07:57] And then there’s other places where I have,
[00:07:57 –> 00:08:00] I’m like blindfolded and in the dark.
[00:08:00 –> 00:08:01] So I would say charcuterie board
[00:08:01 –> 00:08:04] for whatever reason I would be great at,
[00:08:04 –> 00:08:06] I would like to do it, I’d be able to do it well.
[00:08:06 –> 00:08:07] You’ve never done it before?
[00:08:07 –> 00:08:09] Yeah. – Oh, you have done it.
[00:08:09 –> 00:08:10] Yeah, yeah, to some degree.
[00:08:10 –> 00:08:14] But then with wrapping presents, I’m awful.
[00:08:14 –> 00:08:15] With wrapping presents, I’m awful
[00:08:15 –> 00:08:18] because I am like lazy in that area
[00:08:18 –> 00:08:20] and so I just don’t, I don’t care enough.
[00:08:20 –> 00:08:23] It’s gonna be trash, and then flower arrangements,
[00:08:23 –> 00:08:24] I have no idea what I’m doing.
[00:08:24 –> 00:08:26] So flower arrangements are awful,
[00:08:26 –> 00:08:27] are gonna be awful as well.
[00:08:29 –> 00:08:32] But if I’m like evaluating it, I have a good sense of it
[00:08:32 –> 00:08:34] because like some guys like are responsible
[00:08:34 –> 00:08:36] for like, decorating the chapel.
[00:08:36 –> 00:08:38] And to be honest, like I know
[00:08:38 –> 00:08:40] what looks good when it’s done,
[00:08:40 –> 00:08:42] but I’m like not good at it.
[00:08:42 –> 00:08:45] So anyway, that’s just what made me think about it.
[00:08:45 –> 00:08:49] Just how we can have different eyes for different things.
[00:08:49 –> 00:08:50] But I think Father PT,
[00:08:52 –> 00:08:54] ’cause I think like when you cook dinner,
[00:08:54 –> 00:08:55] you make it look decent, right?
[00:08:55 –> 00:08:56] Like your presentation.
[00:08:56 –> 00:08:58] You eat with your eyes. – I was gonna say
[00:08:58 –> 00:08:59] making food look beautiful too.
[00:08:59 –> 00:09:01] That’s probably important to me as well.
[00:09:01 –> 00:09:03] Like the way you set it out, the way you serve it,
[00:09:03 –> 00:09:05] the way you, we just had a parent center the other day
[00:09:05 –> 00:09:06] and I did a taco bar.
[00:09:06 –> 00:09:08] I was pretty proud of it.
[00:09:09 –> 00:09:11] You did the taco bar? – Yeah.
[00:09:13 –> 00:09:16] Do you wanna flex on anything Father innocent?
[00:09:16 –> 00:09:19] We got father PT talking about his flowers.
[00:09:19 –> 00:09:22] Father Angelus talking about his taco bar.
[00:09:22 –> 00:09:23] You wanna flex on anything?
[00:09:25 –> 00:09:27] So I lived with Father Angelus for a long time, as we know
[00:09:27 –> 00:09:29] before this current assignment.
[00:09:29 –> 00:09:32] And Father Angelus I think is a very, very good cook.
[00:09:35 –> 00:09:37] And so being here at my new assignment,
[00:09:38 –> 00:09:39] let’s say that I’m the one
[00:09:39 –> 00:09:41] that’s like more adventurous in cooking stuff.
[00:09:41 –> 00:09:46] And so I cooked for like Christmas and Easter
[00:09:46 –> 00:09:47] and I like upped my game.
[00:09:47 –> 00:09:50] I didn’t have Father Angelus, but I did some,
[00:09:50 –> 00:09:54] I did some like cool hospitality stuff with some food.
[00:09:54 –> 00:09:56] So that’s what I wanna flex with.
[00:09:56 –> 00:09:58] I think I made some good meals for the brothers
[00:09:58 –> 00:10:03] that were kind of different and maybe higher.
[00:10:03 –> 00:10:06] Like just raised my game a little bit when it comes to that.
[00:10:06 –> 00:10:07] Beer bread?
[00:10:09 –> 00:10:12] I didn’t do the beer bread, I didn’t do that,
[00:10:12 –> 00:10:16] but I did some cool things with like flank steak
[00:10:16 –> 00:10:18] and some nice stuff with the brothers.
[00:10:20 –> 00:10:21] Nice one.
[00:10:21 –> 00:10:22] Great.
[00:10:22 –> 00:10:24] Thank you guys for, I’ve been holding onto
[00:10:24 –> 00:10:26] that question for about two months.
[00:10:26 –> 00:10:28] Two months.
[00:10:28 –> 00:10:31] Wonder if there’s more of a masculine reason.
[00:10:31 –> 00:10:33] Like some of those feel kind of, I think you’re just,
[00:10:33 –> 00:10:37] that was a jab at Father PT for his flowers bro.
[00:10:37 –> 00:10:39] Flower arrangements, wrapping presents.
[00:10:39 –> 00:10:41] I’m just like, like what are the like?
[00:10:43 –> 00:10:45] Look, I’m secure.
[00:10:45 –> 00:10:47] No, that wasn’t a jab.
[00:10:47 –> 00:10:50] I was just like, that was not a jab.
[00:10:50 –> 00:10:52] I wonder what the masculine version would be.
[00:10:52 –> 00:10:54] Those things can be masculine, I’m not saying that.
[00:10:54 –> 00:10:56] Cutting grass, throwing axes.
[00:10:56 –> 00:10:57] I don’t know.
[00:11:00 –> 00:11:01] Just picked random things.
[00:11:02 –> 00:11:04] Are you guys done with this idle talk?
[00:11:05 –> 00:11:07] I’m sorry.
[00:11:07 –> 00:11:09] Please, point guard.
[00:11:09 –> 00:11:11] Where are we going now?
[00:11:11 –> 00:11:12] Yeah, lead me, bro.
[00:11:12 –> 00:11:15] Basketball references, a lot of fun by the way.
[00:11:17 –> 00:11:19] For the record, it was super impressive.
[00:11:19 –> 00:11:21] Father Gregory’s ability to not only hang
[00:11:21 –> 00:11:23] with you guys in the sports stuff,
[00:11:23 –> 00:11:27] but he felt like he’s in it like he knows.
[00:11:27 –> 00:11:30] It took a lot in me not to go deeper into that stuff
[00:11:30 –> 00:11:31] ’cause I really wanted to.
[00:11:32 –> 00:11:34] ‘Cause I made a passing comment
[00:11:34 –> 00:11:36] ’cause he said he’s from outside of Philadelphia.
[00:11:36 –> 00:11:37] I could have gone like heavy Sixers
[00:11:37 –> 00:11:40] ’cause the Knick’s currently are playing the Sixers
[00:11:41 –> 00:11:42] in the playoffs.
[00:11:42 –> 00:11:45] And so anyway, it just took a lot of restraint in me.
[00:11:45 –> 00:11:47] Basically, I’m virtue signaling right here.
[00:11:47 –> 00:11:49] There’s gonna be another sports theme question
[00:11:49 –> 00:11:51] next episode.
[00:11:51 –> 00:11:53] Okay. – Which it’s not the same,
[00:11:54 –> 00:11:55] but I could
[00:11:58 –> 00:12:00] talking about what?
[00:12:00 –> 00:12:02] Like that whole thing about like no,
[00:12:02 –> 00:12:03] the Dominicans would be this type of center
[00:12:03 –> 00:12:05] or that, I could do that conversation.
[00:12:05 –> 00:12:07] I love that type of conversation.
[00:12:07 –> 00:12:09] And I’m about to have another one next time.
[00:12:09 –> 00:12:12] But also I get the whole Philly, New York,
[00:12:12 –> 00:12:15] like there’s a lot going on right now.
[00:12:17 –> 00:12:19] So ready for a quick and sudden turn?
[00:12:20 –> 00:12:22] Well, yeah, I guess we are now.
[00:12:22 –> 00:12:24] I loved how you said it and abruptly we move
[00:12:24 –> 00:12:26] into the topic here. – Kind of.
[00:12:27 –> 00:12:31] So here’s the question,
[00:12:31 –> 00:12:33] and this is gonna be a little bit of a
[00:12:36 –> 00:12:40] group spiritual direction towards a potential
[00:12:40 –> 00:12:41] like a listener type.
[00:12:44 –> 00:12:49] And I think it’s a subjective experience person
[00:12:49 –> 00:12:50] that we encounter around
[00:12:50 –> 00:12:54] or in the pews with some regularity.
[00:12:55 –> 00:12:57] And the person is this,
[00:12:57 –> 00:13:00] it’s a type of person who’s deeply Catholic,
[00:13:00 –> 00:13:02] probably they were raised Catholic, probably they grew up
[00:13:02 –> 00:13:05] in it, they grew up in relatively Catholic households.
[00:13:05 –> 00:13:09] Going to Sunday mass was an ordinary thing.
[00:13:09 –> 00:13:11] There was never a doubt about them
[00:13:11 –> 00:13:13] getting their sacraments, et cetera.
[00:13:14 –> 00:13:16] And so the person who kind of grew up Catholic,
[00:13:16 –> 00:13:18] they believe, they care about it, they own it.
[00:13:19 –> 00:13:21] They also like take it,
[00:13:22 –> 00:13:24] they actually do stuff with it, right?
[00:13:24 –> 00:13:27] Like they might, they might go
[00:13:28 –> 00:13:29] to daily mass once or twice a week.
[00:13:29 –> 00:13:31] You know, they might sneak out at their lunch break
[00:13:31 –> 00:13:35] or sometime it’s before work, maybe once a week.
[00:13:35 –> 00:13:37] You know, they’re saying a rosary,
[00:13:37 –> 00:13:38] something like that.
[00:13:40 –> 00:13:44] Overall, they believe what the church teaches.
[00:13:44 –> 00:13:48] They’re, you know,
[00:13:48 –> 00:13:51] trying to avoid mortal sin.
[00:13:51 –> 00:13:53] That’s like not something, there’s like no mortal sin
[00:13:53 –> 00:13:55] they’re like, yeah, a hundred percent.
[00:13:55 –> 00:13:56] Like I don’t care about that.
[00:13:57 –> 00:14:00] They’re trying and you know, if there’s an issue, they go
[00:14:00 –> 00:14:05] to confession, but like they don’t feel it, right?
[00:14:05 –> 00:14:08] Like they kind of grew up in it.
[00:14:08 –> 00:14:10] It feels a little bit maybe like
[00:14:10 –> 00:14:12] what we can call like a cultural Catholicism.
[00:14:12 –> 00:14:15] Like they believe in it though.
[00:14:15 –> 00:14:17] They grew up in it,
[00:14:17 –> 00:14:21] but they just maybe don’t like really feel like they have
[00:14:21 –> 00:14:25] a relationship with the Lord or they don’t really feel like
[00:14:25 –> 00:14:26] connected to the Lord
[00:14:26 –> 00:14:28] or they don’t really feel like he knows them
[00:14:28 –> 00:14:30] or that they know the Lord.
[00:14:30 –> 00:14:33] Like there’s just, like, when they’re saying the prayers
[00:14:33 –> 00:14:34] and stuff, like there’s not necessarily like a lot
[00:14:34 –> 00:14:36] of heart in it or a lot of subjective like,
[00:14:36 –> 00:14:37] feeling of the heart in it.
[00:14:39 –> 00:14:44] Like what kind of, how would you guide this type of person?
[00:14:44 –> 00:14:45] Like where would you meet ’em
[00:14:45 –> 00:14:48] and how would you like help ’em discern
[00:14:49 –> 00:14:51] like the Lord’s invitation in those spaces
[00:14:51 –> 00:14:52] and in those moments?
[00:14:56 –> 00:14:59] Yeah, I mean, I really appreciate this question.
[00:15:02 –> 00:15:03] I actually have so many thoughts.
[00:15:05 –> 00:15:08] What first comes to me is,
[00:15:10 –> 00:15:15] yeah, I guess just to really, again,
[00:15:15 –> 00:15:17] I don’t know how you would verbally, if someone was sitting
[00:15:17 –> 00:15:20] in front of me, I don’t know how I would verbally do this,
[00:15:21 –> 00:15:23] but just to recognize that again,
[00:15:25 –> 00:15:27] how you kind of laid out the profile of this person.
[00:15:27 –> 00:15:29] Obviously there’s just so much good
[00:15:29 –> 00:15:31] and there’s so much grace
[00:15:31 –> 00:15:32] and their connection with the Lord,
[00:15:34 –> 00:15:37] the fact that the faith is important to them.
[00:15:37 –> 00:15:40] I just think you wanna start out by saying
[00:15:40 –> 00:15:43] that there’s a lot happening here, right?
[00:15:43 –> 00:15:45] And again, I heard that in every thing you were saying,
[00:15:45 –> 00:15:47] but like, it’s just good to know,
[00:15:47 –> 00:15:50] like if pastorally if you’re with the person in this space,
[00:15:51 –> 00:15:52] it’s just gets to be like, wow,
[00:15:52 –> 00:15:54] there seems to be just a lot happening.
[00:15:54 –> 00:15:55] How beautiful.
[00:15:57 –> 00:15:59] To kind of try to focus on the grace and God’s presence
[00:15:59 –> 00:16:02] and everything that he has done.
[00:16:02 –> 00:16:04] But I think what’s interesting is that
[00:16:04 –> 00:16:09] what we’re seeing though is that they’re seeing some cracks.
[00:16:09 –> 00:16:10] Like, okay, I have all this stuff.
[00:16:10 –> 00:16:11] I’ve been Catholic my whole life,
[00:16:11 –> 00:16:15] or I go to mass, I do the things, right?
[00:16:15 –> 00:16:17] I check off the list, but they’re noticing cracks
[00:16:17 –> 00:16:20] or they’re noticing what I would name it as
[00:16:20 –> 00:16:22] they’re noticing like unfilled desire
[00:16:24 –> 00:16:27] and so I would ask him about that.
[00:16:27 –> 00:16:28] I would say, okay, oh, like I noticed
[00:16:28 –> 00:16:30] you have all these things,
[00:16:30 –> 00:16:33] but it seems like you want something more.
[00:16:33 –> 00:16:35] Or it seems like it’s heady,
[00:16:35 –> 00:16:36] but we’re talking about like this,
[00:16:36 –> 00:16:38] the desires language of the heart.
[00:16:38 –> 00:16:40] And so if I was sitting with someone,
[00:16:40 –> 00:16:43] it could be interesting to do the 12 inch draw from the head
[00:16:43 –> 00:16:46] to the heart that it seems like they haven’t done
[00:16:46 –> 00:16:50] or that they want to do, but maybe don’t know how to do.
[00:16:50 –> 00:16:53] Because again, the faith can just be handed on to us,
[00:16:53 –> 00:16:55] but it’s still very left brain.
[00:16:55 –> 00:16:58] It’s still facts, it’s still ritual.
[00:16:58 –> 00:17:01] It’s still like all the things that we do, right?
[00:17:01 –> 00:17:03] And so the excitement for me would be like,
[00:17:03 –> 00:17:06] as a spiritual father would to try
[00:17:06 –> 00:17:09] to get them into their heart and start using questions
[00:17:09 –> 00:17:10] or language around desire.
[00:17:10 –> 00:17:14] Well, it seems you’ve experienced these things,
[00:17:14 –> 00:17:15] but what do you desire?
[00:17:15 –> 00:17:16] It seems like there’s something more
[00:17:16 –> 00:17:18] you still desire, right?
[00:17:18 –> 00:17:22] Because what we’re talking about is the experience
[00:17:22 –> 00:17:24] of communion and love.
[00:17:24 –> 00:17:28] We’re not just talking about kind of, again, ritual
[00:17:28 –> 00:17:31] and the things we do for Jesus.
[00:17:31 –> 00:17:32] And so I would even say,
[00:17:32 –> 00:17:35] we’re talking about something about like falling,
[00:17:37 –> 00:17:40] like has someone fallen in love with Jesus?
[00:17:41 –> 00:17:43] Have they fallen in love with God?
[00:17:43 –> 00:17:45] Has their heart been moved?
[00:17:45 –> 00:17:48] And that’s just where I would try to go, right?
[00:17:48 –> 00:17:52] Because how many times we spend time
[00:17:52 –> 00:17:54] on the surface and doing all the things right,
[00:17:54 –> 00:17:59] but our hearts are made for something more, right?
[00:17:59 –> 00:18:01] And yeah, that’s just my heart for people is just like, wow.
[00:18:01 –> 00:18:02] I want them to feel
[00:18:02 –> 00:18:06] and experience in the depths of who they are, the way
[00:18:06 –> 00:18:08] that God loves them and cares for them and is present.
[00:18:08 –> 00:18:10] So I guess that’s just where I would go.
[00:18:10 –> 00:18:12] Can I respond? – Yeah.
[00:18:12 –> 00:18:14] So okay, so you mentioned this
[00:18:14 –> 00:18:16] and now it’s like, okay, yeah,
[00:18:17 –> 00:18:18] like yeah, that’s what I want.
[00:18:18 –> 00:18:19] But here’s the thing.
[00:18:19 –> 00:18:22] I don’t feel like I’ve fallen in love with Jesus
[00:18:22 –> 00:18:24] or I haven’t experienced it and I try to pray
[00:18:26 –> 00:18:29] and like I just don’t feel anything.
[00:18:29 –> 00:18:31] So like what do I do?
[00:18:32 –> 00:18:34] Yeah, so it’s a great example.
[00:18:34 –> 00:18:35] And so I would, again, that’s where I think,
[00:18:35 –> 00:18:38] and maybe Ang, I’m gonna set you up here
[00:18:38 –> 00:18:40] just like last time.
[00:18:40 –> 00:18:42] And that’s where you want like, our prayer
[00:18:42 –> 00:18:44] and our experience with God is storied.
[00:18:44 –> 00:18:47] Like you show up to prayer in a really particular way.
[00:18:47 –> 00:18:49] And there’s reasons why,
[00:18:49 –> 00:18:51] and I’m gonna try to keep this in general
[00:18:51 –> 00:18:54] because as we like, people may or may not know,
[00:18:55 –> 00:18:57] but, you know, the majority of the spiritual direction I do
[00:18:57 –> 00:18:58] is with priest and religious.
[00:18:58 –> 00:19:00] So I kind of wanna keep it general that I don’t.
[00:19:00 –> 00:19:02] But even priest and religious, we can show up
[00:19:02 –> 00:19:04] to prayer in a really particular way
[00:19:04 –> 00:19:05] and we can do all the things.
[00:19:05 –> 00:19:08] But again, there are blocks in my heart,
[00:19:08 –> 00:19:09] there’s self-protection.
[00:19:11 –> 00:19:14] We haven’t gone deeper for particular reasons.
[00:19:14 –> 00:19:16] So what I would do if someone was
[00:19:16 –> 00:19:20] with me in spiritual direction, I would say, okay, like
[00:19:20 –> 00:19:23] you’ve acknowledged desire and how amazing that is,
[00:19:23 –> 00:19:27] but there are reasons why you don’t experience connection
[00:19:27 –> 00:19:30] with God like you want to.
[00:19:30 –> 00:19:31] And I would invite them like, are you willing
[00:19:31 –> 00:19:33] to go on a journey to look at the places
[00:19:33 –> 00:19:37] where you feel disconnected or why, or self protected
[00:19:37 –> 00:19:41] or afraid or anxious or lack vulnerability?
[00:19:41 –> 00:19:44] That’s usually a big one where people are like,
[00:19:44 –> 00:19:46] yeah, like, you know, like I don’t know how
[00:19:46 –> 00:19:47] to share my heart with God.
[00:19:47 –> 00:19:51] Or like, I’m just like, again, you want to try
[00:19:51 –> 00:19:53] to note the experiences
[00:19:53 –> 00:19:56] and trying to help them realize
[00:19:56 –> 00:19:58] that why there are blocks in the spiritual life.
[00:19:58 –> 00:20:00] And so that’s the exciting journey.
[00:20:00 –> 00:20:02] Like, would you be willing to go on a journey
[00:20:02 –> 00:20:04] to like look at some of those blocks that
[00:20:04 –> 00:20:06] where you feel disconnected and why?
[00:20:06 –> 00:20:07] And I think,
[00:20:07 –> 00:20:10] or it’s been my experience personally in walking with people
[00:20:10 –> 00:20:11] that it’s storied.
[00:20:11 –> 00:20:14] Like there are reasons why you show up to your relationship
[00:20:14 –> 00:20:15] with God like that.
[00:20:15 –> 00:20:17] And I would love to help you.
[00:20:17 –> 00:20:20] I’d love to like just look at some of these things.
[00:20:21 –> 00:20:24] So we could experience like a reconnection
[00:20:24 –> 00:20:26] or more of a vulnerability or openness.
[00:20:26 –> 00:20:28] So I would go the story work route.
[00:20:28 –> 00:20:31] It’s usually worked, right, for me.
[00:20:31 –> 00:20:33] I don’t know Ang, you walk with a lot
[00:20:33 –> 00:20:35] of people in this context how your story affects
[00:20:35 –> 00:20:36] how you show up in prayer.
[00:20:36 –> 00:20:37] Do you have anything?
[00:20:37 –> 00:20:39] Would you say anything more about that?
[00:20:39 –> 00:20:42] Yeah, I think you’re onto something though, bro.
[00:20:42 –> 00:20:44] And I think it’s really insightful Father Mark-Mary,
[00:20:44 –> 00:20:47] like the way you kind of proposed this conversation
[00:20:47 –> 00:20:48] really feels important.
[00:20:48 –> 00:20:49] And the first thing that came to mind,
[00:20:49 –> 00:20:52] I’m with the postulants on retreat these days
[00:20:52 –> 00:20:54] and one of the talks
[00:20:54 –> 00:20:56] and conversations we had yesterday is
[00:20:56 –> 00:20:57] around these particular topics
[00:20:57 –> 00:20:59] is why do we think we get stuck?
[00:21:01 –> 00:21:04] And the proposal was, it’s kind of a good Samaritan theme
[00:21:04 –> 00:21:06] that doesn’t surprise anyone,
[00:21:06 –> 00:21:08] but the proposal that the man stuck on the side
[00:21:08 –> 00:21:09] of the road, not necessarily
[00:21:09 –> 00:21:10] because the things he’s done in his life,
[00:21:10 –> 00:21:13] but the shame that he has in his life.
[00:21:13 –> 00:21:15] So the recognition that we hold to narratives
[00:21:15 –> 00:21:16] that we believe about ourselves
[00:21:16 –> 00:21:18] and we believe about God
[00:21:18 –> 00:21:20] that get us stuck in particular situations.
[00:21:20 –> 00:21:24] And so shame is what actually buries us in the midst
[00:21:24 –> 00:21:25] of our desire for holiness.
[00:21:25 –> 00:21:27] And so it’s not like something bad happened to me.
[00:21:27 –> 00:21:28] It’s like I started
[00:21:28 –> 00:21:31] to believe things about myself when I was younger
[00:21:32 –> 00:21:34] that dictates a lot of how I act and a lot of what I believe
[00:21:34 –> 00:21:36] and a lot of how I show up in the world.
[00:21:36 –> 00:21:39] And so my proposal, to your point Father Innocent
[00:21:39 –> 00:21:41] is just like, if we’re doing all the right things,
[00:21:41 –> 00:21:43] but I’m still not flourishing
[00:21:43 –> 00:21:46] or still not experiencing the fruits of what I desire,
[00:21:46 –> 00:21:49] I’m wondering if it’s a narrative thing.
[00:21:49 –> 00:21:50] I’m wondering, it’s like what do
[00:21:50 –> 00:21:51] I actually believe about God?
[00:21:51 –> 00:21:53] Yeah, but I don’t feel anything.
[00:21:53 –> 00:21:56] I keep showing up and I don’t know what to do
[00:21:56 –> 00:21:57] and I don’t know what to experience
[00:21:57 –> 00:21:59] and then I start to doubt maybe God loves me
[00:21:59 –> 00:22:02] or look at everybody else’s prayer that looks amazing,
[00:22:02 –> 00:22:04] but I still show up every day and I just don’t know.
[00:22:04 –> 00:22:07] Or I’m maybe not be feeling as fruitful or thriving
[00:22:07 –> 00:22:09] or flourishing in the midst of my life
[00:22:09 –> 00:22:11] like it appears to be other people.
[00:22:11 –> 00:22:13] And then narratives show up like saying, well,
[00:22:13 –> 00:22:15] maybe he doesn’t care about me,
[00:22:15 –> 00:22:17] or narratives show up to say like, yeah, he shows up
[00:22:17 –> 00:22:20] for other people in prayer, but he doesn’t show up for me.
[00:22:20 –> 00:22:21] Or like, yeah, he gives me some things
[00:22:21 –> 00:22:24] but he doesn’t wanna give me extravagant, beautiful things.
[00:22:25 –> 00:22:27] And so I’m curious about
[00:22:27 –> 00:22:29] if we feel stuck in particular places,
[00:22:29 –> 00:22:31] maybe we’re stuck in a sin.
[00:22:31 –> 00:22:32] What’s the narrative there?
[00:22:32 –> 00:22:34] Maybe relationships are difficult.
[00:22:34 –> 00:22:36] What’s the narrative there?
[00:22:36 –> 00:22:37] What do I start to believe about myself?
[00:22:37 –> 00:22:40] What do I carry around that I can name,
[00:22:40 –> 00:22:42] bring into a safe relationship, like spiritual direction
[00:22:42 –> 00:22:46] and start to be like, man, like St. Francis, right?
[00:22:46 –> 00:22:48] Lord, who are you and who am I?
[00:22:48 –> 00:22:49] What are the lies, the narratives
[00:22:49 –> 00:22:51] and things I hold in those places
[00:22:51 –> 00:22:53] that can often jam me up,
[00:22:54 –> 00:22:58] that can often disrupt intimacy, disrupt vulnerability,
[00:22:58 –> 00:23:00] disrupt peace and joy that I have
[00:23:00 –> 00:23:02] in particular relationships?
[00:23:02 –> 00:23:04] ‘Cause if I’m in a human relationship with Father Innocent
[00:23:04 –> 00:23:05] and I start to believe that he doesn’t like me,
[00:23:05 –> 00:23:07] that he doesn’t care about me,
[00:23:07 –> 00:23:09] or that maybe he just reaches out and wants to be friends
[00:23:09 –> 00:23:11] because he pities me and he feels bad for me.
[00:23:11 –> 00:23:14] If I have a whole reality of narratives
[00:23:14 –> 00:23:16] that are built up in my life based on my relationship
[00:23:16 –> 00:23:19] with him, it certainly affects the way I show up
[00:23:19 –> 00:23:20] when we hang out together.
[00:23:20 –> 00:23:22] Or when he emails me, say, hey, you wanna hang out today?
[00:23:22 –> 00:23:24] And then I’m like, no, that’s not true.
[00:23:24 –> 00:23:26] He doesn’t wanna spend time with me.
[00:23:26 –> 00:23:28] He just feels bad for me, right?
[00:23:28 –> 00:23:31] So narratives can be
[00:23:31 –> 00:23:34] probably more significant than we think.
[00:23:34 –> 00:23:39] And if we’re not living a life where we’re aware, man,
[00:23:39 –> 00:23:40] we can be on the side of the road
[00:23:40 –> 00:23:42] in particular situations like the Good Samaritan
[00:23:42 –> 00:23:42] and we cannot know it.
[00:23:42 –> 00:23:43] You’re like, why am I stuck here?
[00:23:43 –> 00:23:45] Why do I keep struggling with this?
[00:23:45 –> 00:23:46] Why is prayer always difficult?
[00:23:46 –> 00:23:48] Why is this relationship always difficult?
[00:23:49 –> 00:23:51] I just wonder if it has more to do
[00:23:51 –> 00:23:53] with narratives and shame than we think.
[00:23:57 –> 00:23:58] Yeah, thank y’all for that.
[00:24:00 –> 00:24:01] And I agree with everything y’all said.
[00:24:01 –> 00:24:04] I would just throw in there just ’cause it sounds like
[00:24:04 –> 00:24:07] there’s a lot for this person.
[00:24:07 –> 00:24:10] So they do the rosary, they go to mass,
[00:24:11 –> 00:24:12] they’re doing the things, right,
[00:24:12 –> 00:24:16] and they just haven’t had the experience of
[00:24:16 –> 00:24:19] like prayer, like meaning, feeling anything during prayer
[00:24:19 –> 00:24:22] or they don’t love Jesus.
[00:24:22 –> 00:24:24] And so it’s like one of those things where, first of all,
[00:24:24 –> 00:24:27] just making sure that like we love God
[00:24:27 –> 00:24:29] because he’s God as opposed to we love God
[00:24:29 –> 00:24:31] because he does things for us type of thing.
[00:24:31 –> 00:24:35] So just trying to totally tease out the like what’s the why?
[00:24:35 –> 00:24:36] Like why are we doing all this?
[00:24:36 –> 00:24:37] You know what I mean?
[00:24:37 –> 00:24:39] Like is it just so I can have a good experience
[00:24:39 –> 00:24:42] and know that I’m seeing a particular way
[00:24:42 –> 00:24:44] or yeah, it’s just the right thing to do
[00:24:44 –> 00:24:46] or not the right thing to do
[00:24:46 –> 00:24:48] or it’s just the way in which like I show up
[00:24:48 –> 00:24:50] to this relationship and it’s not
[00:24:50 –> 00:24:52] because I’m looking to get something, it’s more so
[00:24:52 –> 00:24:55] because like God is good and this is just
[00:24:55 –> 00:24:59] and necessary, but like with what’s the why also
[00:24:59 –> 00:25:01] to this it can sound,
[00:25:01 –> 00:25:03] and I don’t know if obviously any situation’s different
[00:25:03 –> 00:25:07] based on the person, but just making sure that we’re,
[00:25:07 –> 00:25:09] we’re not totally reliant on ourselves.
[00:25:09 –> 00:25:12] Meaning, hey, is there a space you could ask Jesus
[00:25:12 –> 00:25:13] for help in this?
[00:25:13 –> 00:25:14] Like, Jesus, can you gimme the grace
[00:25:14 –> 00:25:16] to experience your heart?
[00:25:16 –> 00:25:18] Jesus, I don’t feel anything during prayer times.
[00:25:18 –> 00:25:20] Can you be with me in this space?
[00:25:20 –> 00:25:22] Because I think often like just we overlook
[00:25:22 –> 00:25:24] that sometimes just the grace
[00:25:24 –> 00:25:27] and if it’s maybe praying the rosary, asking our Lady
[00:25:27 –> 00:25:31] or just asking for a friend in this situation,
[00:25:31 –> 00:25:33] I know it’s counterintuitive because we’re not feeling
[00:25:33 –> 00:25:36] anything during prayer, so it seems stupid to like ask
[00:25:36 –> 00:25:38] for something in prayer that we’re not gonna feel,
[00:25:38 –> 00:25:40] but grace is real and it’s a particular help
[00:25:40 –> 00:25:42] that the Lord gives.
[00:25:42 –> 00:25:44] And sometimes like we can go through these things
[00:25:44 –> 00:25:46] because the Lord just wants that to mean like, hey,
[00:25:46 –> 00:25:47] I actually wanna help you in this space
[00:25:47 –> 00:25:49] and I want you to ask
[00:25:49 –> 00:25:51] because then it shows a deeper reality that he does care
[00:25:51 –> 00:25:55] for us in these places that are hard and difficult for us.
[00:25:56 –> 00:25:57] And so yeah,
[00:25:57 –> 00:25:59] I just offer those two things in particular,
[00:25:59 –> 00:26:01] especially in light of everything that y’all said.
[00:26:03 –> 00:26:04] Thank you guys.
[00:26:05 –> 00:26:06] And I’m on right.
[00:26:06 –> 00:26:07] Here we go.
[00:26:11 –> 00:26:13] What I felt like was a bit of a thread
[00:26:14 –> 00:26:19] from everything you guys shared was like receiving
[00:26:19 –> 00:26:23] what we can call an experience of lack of connection
[00:26:23 –> 00:26:27] or we’ll just call it that,
[00:26:28 –> 00:26:30] discerning that or like hearing in that
[00:26:30 –> 00:26:32] like an invitation, right?
[00:26:32 –> 00:26:34] So like no one said, okay,
[00:26:34 –> 00:26:36] it sounds like just this is just how it is
[00:26:36 –> 00:26:39] and you need to kind of like just accept it.
[00:26:42 –> 00:26:43] Or there was no one that was like, yeah,
[00:26:43 –> 00:26:44] okay, that’s just how it is.
[00:26:44 –> 00:26:47] But there was like, okay, like can we
[00:26:47 –> 00:26:48] be open to an invitation?
[00:26:50 –> 00:26:51] And so I think, you know, like first kind of heard it
[00:26:51 –> 00:26:54] with Father Innocent in a little bit more explicit,
[00:26:54 –> 00:26:56] like this is what I would do.
[00:26:56 –> 00:26:58] I would do a little bit of like an invitation of like, okay,
[00:26:58 –> 00:27:03] can we explore some of the reasons, some of the areas
[00:27:03 –> 00:27:05] why we might be feeling a disconnection?
[00:27:05 –> 00:27:08] And then you kind of went with this maybe up to Father PT
[00:27:08 –> 00:27:10] and part of it, I think this is like a very much
[00:27:10 –> 00:27:12] a foundational first step of like, okay,
[00:27:12 –> 00:27:15] remember prayer is not like a spirit.
[00:27:15 –> 00:27:19] Like prayer’s not like about me, it’s about, it’s like,
[00:27:19 –> 00:27:22] it’s a me and and God thing and it begins with
[00:27:22 –> 00:27:25] and is like, it primarily actually the work
[00:27:25 –> 00:27:26] of it is on God.
[00:27:26 –> 00:27:27] So ask him, like share your heart with him
[00:27:27 –> 00:27:28] and ask him for the grace.
[00:27:30 –> 00:27:33] And so there’s like a seeking, there’s an asking,
[00:27:33 –> 00:27:36] but also I think like what I kind of, what I would look at
[00:27:36 –> 00:27:37] with like Father Angel is like, there’s like a little bit
[00:27:37 –> 00:27:39] of a knocking, you know,
[00:27:39 –> 00:27:41] and like when, you know,
[00:27:41 –> 00:27:43] knocking on the door maybe isn’t just like one door,
[00:27:43 –> 00:27:44] but like, kind of like, like almost like you’re going like
[00:27:44 –> 00:27:46] looking for the stud in the house.
[00:27:46 –> 00:27:48] Like you’re, you’re kind of like knocking
[00:27:48 –> 00:27:50] on different doors, opening up,
[00:27:50 –> 00:27:51] seeing what’s going on there.
[00:27:51 –> 00:27:53] One of them being shame like,
[00:27:53 –> 00:27:55] is there an experience of shame?
[00:27:55 –> 00:27:57] Which is I really love that actually,
[00:27:57 –> 00:27:59] I’ve never really heard this before, but it’s really great
[00:27:59 –> 00:28:00] about how you can kind of like
[00:28:00 –> 00:28:02] shame gets you stuck and it buries you.
[00:28:02 –> 00:28:04] Is there something there with shame?
[00:28:06 –> 00:28:08] So I think, yeah, I think that there’s some invitation
[00:28:08 –> 00:28:10] in it, at first like not just something
[00:28:10 –> 00:28:12] to just accept,
[00:28:12 –> 00:28:15] something to sort of validate like yeah, the desire
[00:28:15 –> 00:28:16] that you have for more.
[00:28:16 –> 00:28:17] Like that’s a good desire.
[00:28:18 –> 00:28:20] So what would be some of the, okay,
[00:28:20 –> 00:28:23] we’re asking the Lord, we’re looking at shame.
[00:28:26 –> 00:28:27] What would be some other, if you will, like doors
[00:28:27 –> 00:28:30] to knock on to see if something going,
[00:28:30 –> 00:28:32] if there’s like an invitation in these different areas
[00:28:32 –> 00:28:36] of our life that maybe the Lord’s inviting us
[00:28:36 –> 00:28:37] to look at
[00:28:39 –> 00:28:42] and maybe some of the opening things up will be found
[00:28:42 –> 00:28:46] by kind of like addressing going into these different areas.
[00:28:46 –> 00:28:48] Father Innocent, do you have any other sort of like,
[00:28:48 –> 00:28:50] what are some other doors knock on regarding
[00:28:50 –> 00:28:52] intimacy with Jesus, I would say.
[00:28:52 –> 00:28:54] Yeah okay, great. I just was gonna ask you,
[00:28:54 –> 00:28:56] ’cause what’s on my heart, what I would do
[00:28:56 –> 00:28:59] after you kind of address the story stuff,
[00:28:59 –> 00:29:00] and this is super meaningful and real.
[00:29:00 –> 00:29:02] Can you just like articulate that again,
[00:29:02 –> 00:29:04] like when you say address the story stuff,
[00:29:04 –> 00:29:07] can you expand on that a little bit more?
[00:29:09 –> 00:29:11] If you address, like if you take the combo of
[00:29:11 –> 00:29:13] what Father Angelus and I were saying that
[00:29:13 –> 00:29:15] if you realize you’re bound up
[00:29:15 –> 00:29:16] and you’re showing up to prayer
[00:29:16 –> 00:29:19] and you’re disconnected, I think there’s a real invitation
[00:29:19 –> 00:29:22] to look at the shame, the story
[00:29:22 –> 00:29:24] to look at what’s happening in your heart.
[00:29:24 –> 00:29:26] If there’s fear, anxiety, insecurity.
[00:29:26 –> 00:29:29] I think when I say address the story stuff,
[00:29:29 –> 00:29:31] that’s what I kind of mean to look,
[00:29:31 –> 00:29:33] to look more at the emotional,
[00:29:33 –> 00:29:36] psychological, to look at your heart.
[00:29:36 –> 00:29:38] Like what’s my experience of life
[00:29:38 –> 00:29:40] and my identity right now?
[00:29:40 –> 00:29:41] The human and the spiritual.
[00:29:41 –> 00:29:43] So that’s kind of what I mean.
[00:29:43 –> 00:29:44] Does that make sense, Father?
[00:29:45 –> 00:29:47] Yeah, I asked for I guess more
[00:29:47 –> 00:29:50] ’cause like he story stuff.
[00:29:50 –> 00:29:53] It can include shame, but shame’s not exhaustive.
[00:29:54 –> 00:29:57] So I think there’s a lot of different experiences.
[00:29:57 –> 00:29:58] It could be shame, it could be fear
[00:29:58 –> 00:30:02] and anxiety, like I said, kinda insecurity, you know,
[00:30:02 –> 00:30:05] like a lack of self-confidence again, just how
[00:30:05 –> 00:30:09] I get up every morning and I show up to life.
[00:30:09 –> 00:30:11] It’s just good to notice like
[00:30:11 –> 00:30:13] what’s my general life experience?
[00:30:13 –> 00:30:15] What is my emotional life like?
[00:30:15 –> 00:30:19] What’s my sense of self, like my self-esteem,
[00:30:19 –> 00:30:20] what are my relationships?
[00:30:20 –> 00:30:22] We’re just kind of doing an honest examination
[00:30:22 –> 00:30:25] where all that we can hold out and not be critical
[00:30:25 –> 00:30:26] and not be hard on ourselves,
[00:30:26 –> 00:30:29] but just to notice how I show up in life.
[00:30:29 –> 00:30:31] I think that’s, when I talk about story stuff,
[00:30:31 –> 00:30:35] we get a lot of that from our story, how we grew up
[00:30:35 –> 00:30:36] and how we were formed.
[00:30:36 –> 00:30:39] And I think just a kind of an honest, stable,
[00:30:39 –> 00:30:42] slow assessment on how we show up
[00:30:42 –> 00:30:46] to life can be helpful in our relationship with God.
[00:30:46 –> 00:30:49] Father, just to reread your desire matters as well.
[00:30:49 –> 00:30:51] Like you’re showing that’s kind of part of like
[00:30:51 –> 00:30:53] how you show up with your heart.
[00:30:53 –> 00:30:55] So I would throw a desire in there.
[00:30:55 –> 00:30:56] Yeah, definitely.
[00:30:56 –> 00:30:59] So that’s kind of what I mean, and what I would do next.
[00:30:59 –> 00:31:03] And I just love the experiences
[00:31:03 –> 00:31:06] and feel super humbled to have the experiences with people.
[00:31:06 –> 00:31:08] If I was directing,
[00:31:08 –> 00:31:11] let’s say I was directing an eight day retreat for someone
[00:31:11 –> 00:31:13] who had this profile and was really, had longing
[00:31:13 –> 00:31:14] and deep desires, but was really
[00:31:14 –> 00:31:17] suffering the disconnection.
[00:31:17 –> 00:31:19] What I would do, I love to keep it super simple
[00:31:19 –> 00:31:23] and I would love to teach them just to, again,
[00:31:23 –> 00:31:25] this sounds so funny and I’m humbled,
[00:31:25 –> 00:31:30] but I would go to like just the simplicity of prayer.
[00:31:30 –> 00:31:32] And what I mean by that is that I would open up the gospel
[00:31:32 –> 00:31:36] and I was like, hey, can we pray together?
[00:31:37 –> 00:31:37] Can I walk with you
[00:31:37 –> 00:31:41] and would you allow me to be with you in prayer?
[00:31:41 –> 00:31:42] And could I lead you?
[00:31:42 –> 00:31:44] Could I lead you in a meditation?
[00:31:44 –> 00:31:45] Could I do like some prayer processing
[00:31:45 –> 00:31:48] with you in real time?
[00:31:48 –> 00:31:51] And so the Word of God opens up Jesus
[00:31:51 –> 00:31:53] and the gospel opens up
[00:31:53 –> 00:31:54] and then they’re not there by themselves
[00:31:54 –> 00:31:57] because this might sound intense,
[00:31:57 –> 00:31:59] but they’ve learned to trust
[00:31:59 –> 00:32:01] or they’ve learned to trust thought patterns
[00:32:01 –> 00:32:02] that aren’t helpful.
[00:32:02 –> 00:32:05] And so sometimes if you can be with them in prayer
[00:32:05 –> 00:32:09] to be like, hey, and you’re walking through a meditation
[00:32:09 –> 00:32:10] and you can ask questions like, hey,
[00:32:10 –> 00:32:13] what’s the truth about the way Jesus sees you
[00:32:13 –> 00:32:15] or loves you there?
[00:32:15 –> 00:32:18] And then you can help them and guide their responses
[00:32:18 –> 00:32:20] and you can recognize lies.
[00:32:21 –> 00:32:24] You can recognize and maybe make, it’s like a chiropractor,
[00:32:24 –> 00:32:26] like make some shifts in the way
[00:32:26 –> 00:32:28] that they encounter Jesus in the Gospels,
[00:32:28 –> 00:32:31] that can have like really like big breakthroughs.
[00:32:32 –> 00:32:36] And I love just going there really simply
[00:32:36 –> 00:32:40] helping them have a new encounter, a new experience
[00:32:40 –> 00:32:43] of Jesus in prayer, especially with the Word of God.
[00:32:44 –> 00:32:47] Usually, I mean, there’s always grace.
[00:32:47 –> 00:32:50] So it’s not like God always shows up.
[00:32:50 –> 00:32:54] Now, it could take time and it’s not like a quick fix,
[00:32:54 –> 00:32:58] but if you reform our experience, if you’re used
[00:32:58 –> 00:32:59] to having this experience
[00:32:59 –> 00:33:02] and if we have something new with someone who loves us
[00:33:02 –> 00:33:06] and encourages us, it usually helps what I feel,
[00:33:06 –> 00:33:10] it usually helps instill hope that prayer
[00:33:10 –> 00:33:13] or my relationship with Jesus can be different
[00:33:13 –> 00:33:15] because someone has sat with me in there
[00:33:15 –> 00:33:18] and maybe taught me, adjusted a few things,
[00:33:18 –> 00:33:20] but usually there’s a stirring
[00:33:20 –> 00:33:22] of some hope that it can be different.
[00:33:26 –> 00:33:28] Can we kind of stay with this for a minute?
[00:33:28 –> 00:33:29] Yeah.
[00:33:33 –> 00:33:37] I understand this is not gonna do it justice,
[00:33:39 –> 00:33:41] ’cause I think that there’s, okay,
[00:33:41 –> 00:33:44] you’ve just said kind of what you do.
[00:33:44 –> 00:33:45] Because I do think
[00:33:45 –> 00:33:47] it’s a pretty like human experience right now
[00:33:47 –> 00:33:49] of like being Catholic and doing the Catholic things
[00:33:49 –> 00:33:52] and just no one ever taught me how to pray.
[00:33:53 –> 00:33:55] And so I’m showing up to prayer, nothing’s happening.
[00:33:55 –> 00:33:59] And so like what would be,
[00:33:59 –> 00:34:03] so you pick a gospel like, like without like maybe doing it,
[00:34:03 –> 00:34:05] can you sort of give the outline
[00:34:05 –> 00:34:08] or the movement in such a way that
[00:34:09 –> 00:34:12] if this is possible, like a listener can take some
[00:34:12 –> 00:34:16] of what you’re offering and like make the first step at it,
[00:34:16 –> 00:34:17] even though I know like a crucial part
[00:34:17 –> 00:34:19] of it is you being there, like another person
[00:34:19 –> 00:34:20] being there with them.
[00:34:20 –> 00:34:23] Like for someone who doesn’t have that,
[00:34:23 –> 00:34:26] like what would be their next step?
[00:34:26 –> 00:34:28] Yeah, and thank you, that’s awesome.
[00:34:28 –> 00:34:31] One thing that we’ve talked about on this podcast
[00:34:31 –> 00:34:34] like ages ago is I use a particular thing
[00:34:34 –> 00:34:37] called like the Encountering Jesus Lexio Guide.
[00:34:37 –> 00:34:39] And so I’ve put together like a lot of,
[00:34:39 –> 00:34:41] most of the encounters with the person of Jesus
[00:34:41 –> 00:34:42] in the Gospels.
[00:34:42 –> 00:34:46] And so I think it’s important what Gospels we start with.
[00:34:46 –> 00:34:47] And sometimes people are like, okay,
[00:34:47 –> 00:34:49] do I just start at the beginning of the gospel
[00:34:49 –> 00:34:51] and Jesus has a lot of preaching.
[00:34:51 –> 00:34:53] Jesus has a lot of words he says,
[00:34:53 –> 00:34:57] but we want to focus on the encounter, like the encounter
[00:34:57 –> 00:34:59] with the heart of Jesus in a particular Word.
[00:34:59 –> 00:35:03] So it matters what gospel passages you choose.
[00:35:03 –> 00:35:04] Father Angelus, I think
[00:35:04 –> 00:35:06] you were talking about the Good Samaritan.
[00:35:06 –> 00:35:07] That’s a great example.
[00:35:07 –> 00:35:10] And so we want to focus on the encounter
[00:35:10 –> 00:35:12] and I basically help people,
[00:35:12 –> 00:35:16] you could ask yourself two questions as I read the gospel,
[00:35:17 –> 00:35:19] we want to try to, again,
[00:35:19 –> 00:35:21] it’s not just like an intellectual thing
[00:35:21 –> 00:35:23] but it’s a heart thing.
[00:35:23 –> 00:35:26] And so as we walk through
[00:35:26 –> 00:35:28] and pray through the Gospels, we want to pay attention
[00:35:28 –> 00:35:30] to the movements of the heart
[00:35:30 –> 00:35:35] and also the questions of like, what is Jesus like here?
[00:35:35 –> 00:35:37] What’s his heart like for this person?
[00:35:37 –> 00:35:39] And again, we’re trying
[00:35:39 –> 00:35:43] to settle into a real human experience
[00:35:43 –> 00:35:44] of the person of Jesus.
[00:35:44 –> 00:35:46] And so you guys have heard me say like,
[00:35:46 –> 00:35:47] what’s Jesus’ heart like?
[00:35:47 –> 00:35:49] And then what’s my heart like
[00:35:49 –> 00:35:52] as I’m receiving the way he loves me,
[00:35:52 –> 00:35:55] or I’m noticing the way he loves
[00:35:55 –> 00:35:57] the man on the side of the road.
[00:35:57 –> 00:36:00] We wanna focus on like the movements of the heart.
[00:36:00 –> 00:36:04] Remember, the catechism the church teaches.
[00:36:04 –> 00:36:06] It’s the heart that prays.
[00:36:07 –> 00:36:08] So we don’t want to just be intellectual.
[00:36:08 –> 00:36:13] We want to just be moved, right?
[00:36:13 –> 00:36:14] And so those are the questions
[00:36:14 –> 00:36:17] that can be really safe places in scriptures.
[00:36:17 –> 00:36:19] What’s Jesus’ heart like here for me
[00:36:19 –> 00:36:21] and what’s my heart like?
[00:36:21 –> 00:36:23] And what you’re noticing happening is
[00:36:23 –> 00:36:27] that there’s a dialogue, that in a real way,
[00:36:27 –> 00:36:29] the scriptures aren’t far away,
[00:36:29 –> 00:36:32] but they’re actually happening to me and I’m being moved
[00:36:32 –> 00:36:36] and I get to share my heart with Jesus in real time.
[00:36:36 –> 00:36:38] And so that’s another thing.
[00:36:38 –> 00:36:39] The third thing I’d say is making sure
[00:36:39 –> 00:36:42] that there’s an entrance into a dialogue.
[00:36:42 –> 00:36:45] And even if it’s forced at the beginning, it’s really good
[00:36:45 –> 00:36:47] to be like, okay, now I’m supposed to talk
[00:36:47 –> 00:36:50] to Jesus about what’s happening as if he was sitting
[00:36:50 –> 00:36:53] next to me or if I was sharing my heart with a friend.
[00:36:53 –> 00:36:54] There’s all these different ways.
[00:36:54 –> 00:36:57] So I think it’s really important that it becomes a dialogue
[00:36:58 –> 00:37:01] and then I can more and more notice
[00:37:01 –> 00:37:05] what’s happening in me as I commune with the Lord.
[00:37:06 –> 00:37:08] Those are the first, I guess those are first,
[00:37:08 –> 00:37:10] those are a few things that come to mind.
[00:37:13 –> 00:37:14] Awesome.
[00:37:17 –> 00:37:19] Did you have something Father Angelus?
[00:37:20 –> 00:37:22] Yeah, thank you Father Innocent.
[00:37:23 –> 00:37:24] And the thing that comes to mind if we’re gonna like,
[00:37:24 –> 00:37:26] if there’s other avenues to consider,
[00:37:27 –> 00:37:28] I think it’s always important too,
[00:37:28 –> 00:37:30] and it’s gonna be central to like,
[00:37:30 –> 00:37:32] something that opens up in us is this recognition
[00:37:33 –> 00:37:35] that I often have the need to repent in my life.
[00:37:35 –> 00:37:37] Like repentance is an avenue.
[00:37:37 –> 00:37:40] Like if we start to repent of not only our sinfulness,
[00:37:40 –> 00:37:44] but repent of distraction, repent of busyness,
[00:37:44 –> 00:37:46] repent of things I fill my life with,
[00:37:46 –> 00:37:50] repent of my pride and self-reliance
[00:37:50 –> 00:37:51] in the midst of the spiritual life.
[00:37:51 –> 00:37:53] If there’s a gentleness,
[00:37:53 –> 00:37:55] not a coming at ourselves in any way,
[00:37:55 –> 00:37:58] but if there’s a gentleness in which I can like live a life
[00:37:58 –> 00:38:00] of repentance where I recognize that I need to be,
[00:38:00 –> 00:38:01] that I wanna be poor and humble
[00:38:01 –> 00:38:04] before the Lord, that’s like a magnet for grace.
[00:38:04 –> 00:38:06] And it’s a magnet for relationship
[00:38:06 –> 00:38:07] and a magnet to recognize
[00:38:07 –> 00:38:09] how much Jesus wants to move towards us.
[00:38:09 –> 00:38:11] But sometimes like the scaffolding
[00:38:11 –> 00:38:14] of the spiritual life for us is so self-reliant,
[00:38:14 –> 00:38:15] so self-focused.
[00:38:15 –> 00:38:18] And again, probably for good reasons in the midst
[00:38:18 –> 00:38:20] of kinda like how we’ve built up our spiritual life,
[00:38:20 –> 00:38:23] I have to do this, I have to perform, I have to be perfect.
[00:38:23 –> 00:38:25] If I just do these things, everything will be okay.
[00:38:25 –> 00:38:29] But if we kind of come to a point we’re like stuck
[00:38:29 –> 00:38:30] and we come to a point where we’re like, man,
[00:38:30 –> 00:38:31] I don’t know how to go deeper.
[00:38:31 –> 00:38:32] I don’t know how to move forward.
[00:38:32 –> 00:38:35] It is really like good to start to look at like, oh wow,
[00:38:35 –> 00:38:38] because it’s been about me or because I’ve been just trying
[00:38:38 –> 00:38:39] to perform my way to connection and love with the Lord
[00:38:39 –> 00:38:42] or I’ve been trying to be perfect.
[00:38:42 –> 00:38:44] And it actually is not just recognizing,
[00:38:44 –> 00:38:45] it’s actually saying like, Lord,
[00:38:45 –> 00:38:46] I’m really sorry about that.
[00:38:46 –> 00:38:49] I’m really sorry that there’s a lot of noise in my life
[00:38:49 –> 00:38:51] because if I actually had to face myself,
[00:38:51 –> 00:38:53] I don’t know what I’d find.
[00:38:53 –> 00:38:55] Or I’m really sorry Jesus, that I’m distracted a lot
[00:38:55 –> 00:38:58] or I’m really sorry that prayers is all about me.
[00:38:59 –> 00:39:01] And so when you start to look at some of those structures
[00:39:01 –> 00:39:03] that like hold us up in the midst
[00:39:03 –> 00:39:07] of our like holy Catholic life, most of those structures
[00:39:07 –> 00:39:08] we get an opportunity to bring before the Lord
[00:39:08 –> 00:39:11] and say like, Lord, I really wanna repent of that.
[00:39:11 –> 00:39:13] And repentance is like this magnet of grace
[00:39:13 –> 00:39:15] and things start to open up.
[00:39:15 –> 00:39:19] And then what would it be like if the grace of the Lord
[00:39:19 –> 00:39:20] and the gift of who he is
[00:39:20 –> 00:39:22] and the way he loves me, the way he comes close to me,
[00:39:22 –> 00:39:27] actually start to hold me up more the kind of like
[00:39:28 –> 00:39:32] self focused realities that I kind of created
[00:39:32 –> 00:39:34] around my notion of the spiritual life
[00:39:34 –> 00:39:37] or notion of what it’s like to follow the Lord?
[00:39:37 –> 00:39:40] And so again, I think and sometimes
[00:39:40 –> 00:39:42] in like just thinking about the postulants
[00:39:42 –> 00:39:44] or a lot of work I do with guys,
[00:39:44 –> 00:39:46] there’s always gonna be this like, hey,
[00:39:46 –> 00:39:47] like what would it be like to repent of that?
[00:39:47 –> 00:39:50] What it be like to go to confession in a new way?
[00:39:50 –> 00:39:52] In light of saying, yeah, I’ve just done it on my own
[00:39:52 –> 00:39:54] for a long time and I’m gonna confess that,
[00:39:54 –> 00:39:55] or I have a lot of distraction
[00:39:55 –> 00:39:57] because I’m scared of what I’d find
[00:39:57 –> 00:39:58] if I was quiet for 10 minutes.
[00:39:58 –> 00:40:01] And you start to think about repenting in a different way,
[00:40:01 –> 00:40:04] which I think has kind of opened stuff up for us.
[00:40:05 –> 00:40:08] And I think a big part of all this
[00:40:08 –> 00:40:10] is just once again we identified like making
[00:40:10 –> 00:40:12] that trip from your head to your heart,
[00:40:13 –> 00:40:17] which is I think obviously everything we’re talking about.
[00:40:17 –> 00:40:19] But I would say this is going off
[00:40:19 –> 00:40:21] of father innocence.
[00:40:21 –> 00:40:22] Just like with scripture and stuff like that,
[00:40:22 –> 00:40:24] I think it’s also available to you,
[00:40:24 –> 00:40:26] especially if somebody’s like faithful
[00:40:26 –> 00:40:30] and with this example that we’re using like for mass
[00:40:30 –> 00:40:32] or for the rosary, like you can actually like sit
[00:40:32 –> 00:40:35] with our Lady during the mysteries of the rosary
[00:40:35 –> 00:40:38] and like, hey, like in the same way
[00:40:38 –> 00:40:40] what you outlined Father Innocent, going through scripture,
[00:40:40 –> 00:40:42] you can do like with a rosary meditation
[00:40:42 –> 00:40:46] or also to, it’s a little bit different during mass,
[00:40:46 –> 00:40:48] but like just seeing what speaks to you more during mass,
[00:40:48 –> 00:40:50] like what happens in your heart during mass
[00:40:50 –> 00:40:52] of either positively or negatively
[00:40:52 –> 00:40:53] and just like sitting with the Lord
[00:40:53 –> 00:40:55] and like, okay Lord, what’s going on there?
[00:40:56 –> 00:40:58] And it just takes,
[00:40:58 –> 00:41:00] I guess we’re presupposing like it takes a recognition
[00:41:00 –> 00:41:03] or it takes a desire to want to go into your heart
[00:41:03 –> 00:41:05] and actually be aware of what’s happening.
[00:41:05 –> 00:41:07] And sometimes like that’s more of the work that needs
[00:41:07 –> 00:41:10] to happen first as opposed to making the jump
[00:41:10 –> 00:41:13] to like spiritual life or whatever it is.
[00:41:13 –> 00:41:15] But it’s like, hey, can I just take stock
[00:41:15 –> 00:41:17] of what’s happening in my heart?
[00:41:17 –> 00:41:19] Whether I can just acknowledge the fact that I’m angry,
[00:41:19 –> 00:41:20] I’m happy, I’m sad,
[00:41:20 –> 00:41:23] or this thing really, you know,
[00:41:23 –> 00:41:25] makes me excited or whatever it is.
[00:41:25 –> 00:41:27] And I think that’s obviously, Father Innocent
[00:41:27 –> 00:41:29] and you mentioned this, but like that’s where we pray
[00:41:29 –> 00:41:32] in our heart and then we can enter into scripture
[00:41:32 –> 00:41:36] and be moved by Jesus’ words for somebody else.
[00:41:36 –> 00:41:38] And can we place ourselves in that space
[00:41:38 –> 00:41:41] or we’re asking the questions as you’re asking
[00:41:41 –> 00:41:43] of like, what’s your heart for me?
[00:41:43 –> 00:41:45] And ultimately I think just leads us to a place
[00:41:45 –> 00:41:49] of then recognizing the places that we’ve missed the Lord
[00:41:49 –> 00:41:51] or it just leads us to the deeper encounter at the end
[00:41:51 –> 00:41:52] of the day, which is what we’re hoping for
[00:41:52 –> 00:41:55] and what this person is hoping for also,
[00:41:55 –> 00:41:57] that they can experience Christ Jesus’s love,
[00:41:57 –> 00:42:00] but also just have an experience of his felt presence
[00:42:00 –> 00:42:01] with them during prayer.
[00:42:03 –> 00:42:08] Yeah, thank you guys and maybe to try
[00:42:08 –> 00:42:10] and bring it together a little bit is,
[00:42:12 –> 00:42:14] I think I heard like a couple of movements,
[00:42:14 –> 00:42:16] not saying this is exhaustive or perfect,
[00:42:19 –> 00:42:22] passing on articulation of everything that was said here,
[00:42:23 –> 00:42:26] but okay, I really like Father PT saying there, okay,
[00:42:26 –> 00:42:30] just like this what I heard at least like,
[00:42:30 –> 00:42:33] let’s have a little bit of sort of curiosity
[00:42:33 –> 00:42:35] towards myself, like, what’s going on in my heart?
[00:42:35 –> 00:42:36] What am I thinking?
[00:42:36 –> 00:42:37] What am I feeling?
[00:42:37 –> 00:42:38] Where am I at?
[00:42:38 –> 00:42:39] And that aligns a little bit with some of
[00:42:39 –> 00:42:43] what Father Angelus said or Innocent particularly
[00:42:43 –> 00:42:43] of like, is there fear?
[00:42:43 –> 00:42:45] Is there hurt, is there anxiety, is there frustration?
[00:42:45 –> 00:42:49] Is there, like what all is in there?
[00:42:49 –> 00:42:50] Like what am I feeling?
[00:42:50 –> 00:42:54] And to kind of try and spend some time to explore that.
[00:42:55 –> 00:42:59] But also like, is there, maybe this is
[00:42:59 –> 00:43:01] kinda how I would summarized them
[00:43:01 –> 00:43:03] and it’s not that these are mutually exclusive,
[00:43:03 –> 00:43:08] is there some sort of, is there an invitation to healing?
[00:43:08 –> 00:43:09] We talked about shame.
[00:43:09 –> 00:43:11] Is there some sort of invitation to healing?
[00:43:11 –> 00:43:15] Is there an invitation to repentance?
[00:43:15 –> 00:43:17] Is there some areas of my life where I’m closed off
[00:43:17 –> 00:43:18] to God, et cetera?
[00:43:20 –> 00:43:22] Actually, is he inviting me deeper in my fidelity,
[00:43:22 –> 00:43:24] in my openness,
[00:43:24 –> 00:43:25] like into my following him,
[00:43:25 –> 00:43:28] is there an invitation of like conversion and repentance?
[00:43:28 –> 00:43:32] Is there also just simply like an invitation to formation?
[00:43:32 –> 00:43:35] ‘Cause sometimes I think some of like
[00:43:35 –> 00:43:38] what would be helpful for people in the prayer life
[00:43:38 –> 00:43:39] is just receiving formation.
[00:43:39 –> 00:43:42] So I think like some of what Father Innocent just offered
[00:43:42 –> 00:43:44] was like a little bit of formation on how to actually
[00:43:45 –> 00:43:47] bring your heart to the Lord in prayer.
[00:43:47 –> 00:43:48] How to sort of experience his heart
[00:43:48 –> 00:43:50] for you with the Gospels.
[00:43:50 –> 00:43:52] So maybe that’s kind of what like, okay,
[00:43:52 –> 00:43:56] if this is your experience, I’m trying to follow Lord,
[00:43:56 –> 00:43:57] I’m doing all these sort of things
[00:43:57 –> 00:44:00] and I just like don’t feel a lot or I don’t feel anything.
[00:44:02 –> 00:44:06] Spend some time, grow and some have some still time
[00:44:06 –> 00:44:07] to be aware of your heart,
[00:44:07 –> 00:44:09] get curious there, what are you feeling?
[00:44:09 –> 00:44:11] And then be open to this.
[00:44:11 –> 00:44:14] Is there is something that’s come up as shame
[00:44:14 –> 00:44:17] is sort of fear, like is there an invitation to healing?
[00:44:17 –> 00:44:21] Is there an invitation to conversion, to repentance?
[00:44:21 –> 00:44:22] Is there an invitation
[00:44:22 –> 00:44:26] to just practice in formation in prayer
[00:44:26 –> 00:44:29] or is there a little bit of overlap?
[00:44:31 –> 00:44:34] Does that seem like an okay place to kind of
[00:44:34 –> 00:44:35] we’re somewhat limited, I understand.
[00:44:35 –> 00:44:37] And I guess I’ll make a comment after,
[00:44:37 –> 00:44:39] but we’re somewhat limited.
[00:44:39 –> 00:44:42] Do you feel like we’re giving people enough here?
[00:44:42 –> 00:44:44] Is there something else you wanted to add or nuance?
[00:44:44 –> 00:44:48] I know, I think you kind of summed it up well,
[00:44:48 –> 00:44:50] but yeah, I think it’s super important.
[00:44:50 –> 00:44:53] I appreciate a lot this, the question
[00:44:53 –> 00:44:54] and conversation for sure.
[00:44:54 –> 00:44:56] Yeah, I was just gonna say too, it’s as you kind
[00:44:56 –> 00:44:58] of propose it at the beginning of the episode, you’re like,
[00:44:58 –> 00:45:01] oh wow, I wonder it’s probably true that a lot
[00:45:01 –> 00:45:04] of people find themselves in these situations
[00:45:04 –> 00:45:06] and asking good questions about like, oh wow,
[00:45:06 –> 00:45:08] is this like kinda how it’s supposed to be?
[00:45:08 –> 00:45:10] Is have I kind of hit this moment
[00:45:10 –> 00:45:11] where I’m like doing the right things
[00:45:11 –> 00:45:14] and have great desires to be holy and go deeper
[00:45:15 –> 00:45:17] and to live the gift of the church
[00:45:17 –> 00:45:19] and the sacramental life.
[00:45:19 –> 00:45:22] And so guys and gals are not experiencing that,
[00:45:22 –> 00:45:24] or there seems to be roadblocks
[00:45:24 –> 00:45:26] or there seems to be something that just is like, ah, man,
[00:45:26 –> 00:45:28] I wonder if there’s something more.
[00:45:29 –> 00:45:32] I’m surprised that like, oh wow, I bet
[00:45:32 –> 00:45:34] that’s more people’s experiences than not.
[00:45:34 –> 00:45:36] And so it’s just kind of interesting and fun
[00:45:36 –> 00:45:38] and hopefully helpful to kind of be like, hey, let’s wrestle
[00:45:38 –> 00:45:41] with this a little bit and what could be helpful for people.
[00:45:43 –> 00:45:44] Great, thank you guys.
[00:45:44 –> 00:45:46] And one of the comments I just wanted
[00:45:46 –> 00:45:49] to make is like a, I don’t know how to tap into it,
[00:45:51 –> 00:45:55] but you guys just like obviously are very, very familiar
[00:45:55 –> 00:45:57] with this, with these waters
[00:45:57 –> 00:45:58] and some of the language you use
[00:45:58 –> 00:46:00] and sort of like the steps you do
[00:46:00 –> 00:46:03] and it’s just like, like Father Angelus busting out like
[00:46:03 –> 00:46:04] the scaffolding of the spiritual life.
[00:46:04 –> 00:46:07] It’s like you didn’t just make that, that’s just,
[00:46:07 –> 00:46:09] I don’t know, you just, obviously you guys
[00:46:09 –> 00:46:11] have an expertise in some of this
[00:46:11 –> 00:46:13] and it would be good for us to figure out more
[00:46:13 –> 00:46:15] and more ways to tap into it.
[00:46:15 –> 00:46:19] But I think there’s obviously
[00:46:19 –> 00:46:20] what we’re doing is helpful and good
[00:46:20 –> 00:46:22] and tapping into some of what you guys,
[00:46:22 –> 00:46:25] but I think there’s levels to this that we gotta figure out
[00:46:25 –> 00:46:28] how to share with the people if that’s a possibility.
[00:46:29 –> 00:46:32] I’m just rejoicing that my internet’s working, thank God.
[00:46:34 –> 00:46:37] Amen, you are the MVP of the day.
[00:46:37 –> 00:46:40] You tested the internet, you brought it with you
[00:46:40 –> 00:46:42] and you even traveled with the microphone
[00:46:42 –> 00:46:44] and all that sort of stuff. – Exactly.
[00:46:44 –> 00:46:45] It almost feels like you’re a guest
[00:46:45 –> 00:46:47] on this show Father Angelus.
[00:46:47 –> 00:46:48] Thank you.
[00:46:48 –> 00:46:51] Not as cool as Father Gregory for sure.
[00:46:51 –> 00:46:52] To be on with me, I was like, nope.
[00:46:52 –> 00:46:53] Sorry guys.
[00:46:55 –> 00:46:58] Who hasn’t, other than me, who hasn’t prayed yet?
[00:46:58 –> 00:46:59] I can pray. – Go ahead.
[00:46:59 –> 00:47:00] In the name of the Father and the Son
[00:47:00 –> 00:47:01] and the Holy Spirit.
[00:47:01 –> 00:47:02] Amen.
[00:47:02 –> 00:47:03] Jesus, we just love you and praise you
[00:47:03 –> 00:47:07] and welcome you Lord, into the deeper places in our hearts
[00:47:07 –> 00:47:08] where we desire more
[00:47:10 –> 00:47:13] and we surrender any of our need
[00:47:13 –> 00:47:15] to do it on our own or figure it all out, Lord.
[00:47:15 –> 00:47:16] And we beg
[00:47:18 –> 00:47:22] and beg for your grace, your love, your care, your mercy,
[00:47:22 –> 00:47:24] your initiative Lord, to be upon us so we can rejoice
[00:47:24 –> 00:47:26] in a deeper relationship with you
[00:47:26 –> 00:47:29] and a deeper invitation to receive all you wanna give us.
[00:47:29 –> 00:47:30] Give us your peace to stay in hope,
[00:47:30 –> 00:47:32] Lord, and fill our hearts.
[00:47:33 –> 00:47:35] We pray this all Jesus in your name, amen.
[00:47:35 –> 00:47:36] Amen. – Amen.
[00:47:38 –> 00:47:39] All right, anything?
[00:47:40 –> 00:47:42] No. – All right.
[00:47:42 –> 00:47:43] See you everybody.
[00:47:43 –> 00:47:44] Peace guys. – Peace everyone.
[00:47:44 –> 00:47:45] Peace.
[00:47:45 –> 00:47:49] (singer singing in foreign language)