[00:00 –> 00:17] What's up everybody? Father Innocent here. And I just wanted to pause and
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[00:33 –> 00:40] (Music)
[00:40 –> 00:42] Hey. I'm fine. McCrory.
[00:42 –> 01:02] Hey, I'm Father peachy. Hey, everybody. Father Innocent here. And this is the
Poco a Poco podcast. Make some noise. I still know. Oh, I don't know, Father Angelus. Father
Angelus on an airplane at this moment. Is he on an airplane? Like, literally right now or, He.
Yes.
[01:02 –> 01:24] So he's he's been sent on a little errand. So he's not with us, but. And he was
genuinely, genuinely upset. He talked. Yeah. It was it was real. I saw him the other day. He's

like, hey, thanks for scheduling another podcast without me. Well, you know, and so we had
your calendar and we didn't know this. And so sorry, bro.
[01:24 –> 01:42] I mean, for what it's worth. I'm just I it didn't it didn't even cross my mind. I
forget your high man. Well, I mean, I just forgot, you know, there's so many things I think about.
Like, I forgot that he wasn't here when we did it. I didn't even think about that. I mean, I forgot to
tell Spirit Juice when we were recording.
[01:42 –> 02:03] So, where was he last time? Just with the patients or home visit or. No, I was
here. I don't, I don't, I don't yeah, I don't remember maybe with the booze in the middle of
August. No. What month were you. Oh, he was on his paternal time. Fraternal meetings. That
was at. Okay, so what are you going to do?
[02:03 –> 02:19] You know. Yeah. Dude, that's just what happens. That's why there's. That's
why there's a team of four so that, you know, hopefully our backup plan. It's a team of three.
And we're doing it. So anyway so he's doing that and
[02:19 –> 02:38] we are preparing to celebrate a couple of things. I mean we celebrate the feast
of Saint Francis and then we commemorate the 800th anniversary of the death of Saint Francis,
which is on October 3rd, which we commemorate with the Transitus.
[02:38 –> 03:07] And we've had a couple of bigger, because, again, it's like the jubilee year of
Saint Francis. So particularly in New York. What I'm aware of is in New York, we've had a
special a couple special events. We had, Catholic Underground, at, Saint Patrick's. Yeah. Was
that. I had a go. It went surprisingly well.
[03:07 –> 03:39] That's great. Surprisingly well. There was, at least on my end, there was a little
bit of a of a question of like, is it like, are like 100 people going to come? And it's a little bit I
mean, in one way, for somebody like me, it's a lot easier because, you know, when we do it, it's
this event we do which has it has like a music led holy hour and it has a bunch of confessions
and then, you, like, literally go down like the, the reception areas in the basement, which I think
is where, like, the underground idea comes from.
[03:39 –> 04:01] And then, there's usually some sort of like, hang out music, entertainment,
whatever. So anyway, this, this time we did at Saint Patrick's Cathedral usually do it early you
council and when it's at our Lakewood Council, it's, it's not exactly a whole day thing, but it's it
kind of like we I think we leave now at like 230, and we usually get back at like 1230 or 1.
[04:01 –> 04:21] So it's a it's a very long day. But because Saint Patrick's has so many things
going on. They had they had a wedding they had like if they'd like a 4:00 wedding and then they
had something like, maybe was like a 530, you know, like, anticipatory, anticipatory mass, like
the vigil mass. We just couldn't do anything, really.
[04:21 –> 04:39] And then they, like, lock everything down, kick everybody out by 9:00. So it
was like it ended up being a pretty easy day, but there's a huge turnout. And actually, I was in
the confessional the whole time, so I didn't see it myself. But they, like, filled the cathedral like
there was, it was like pretty packed. And so it seems like it was a big success.
[04:39 –> 05:07] That's awesome. Yeah. Wonderful. Big win for the home team. Yeah. Yeah.
The only bummer, because, like, when it's at or the good council, even if we don't have a ton of
confessors, we we can kind of keep going to. Everybody's gone because, like, we lock up the
church, but, there was like 5 to 8 people and all the lines who weren't able to go to confession
just because there weren't enough confessors.
[05:07 –> 05:29] And then, like, they, they shut things down. So I think we all felt that because
that's not really something that we really ever had the experience of. So that was, that was like
disappointing, especially kids like the Saturday night. It's like, you know, for a lot of people, if
they're trying to if there's if they want to go to confession before they go like receive communion,
it's kind of like the last chance to do that.
[05:29 –> 05:52] Yeah. Yeah. So I think we all kind of felt that and then we have, you know, we
are recording before the Feast of Saint Francis, but we're having a special celebration for the
feast, Saint Francis. We're going to do or the Transitus is we're gonna do a special Transitus at,

at, Catholic Underground. We'll see how that goes.
[05:52 –> 06:13] We we got one of the, Father Jonah Teller, who's one of the. He's one of the
Dominicans, part of Hillbilly Thomists. And, he's the pastor now of, like, the church, which is in
all the headlines because it's kind of like blowing up. He'll be preaching for us for the feast of
Saint Francis. Oh, nice.
[06:13 –> 06:32] That's great. Would you guys say yes to that? Like if the Americans were like,
hey, if you seen Dominic, would you guys. We'd love for you guys to come preach to us. I feel
like the innocence of. Yes, I was, I was going to be like, no, that's not my thing. I would feel like I
would feel really?
[06:32 –> 06:45] What would you think I was a yes, I, I balked at that. I'm like, I don't know, I
don't, I don't know. So if I put it where you can say, I was asked and I said I couldn't, I mean, I
couldn't because I was away, but I would have said yes. You would have said yes.
[06:45 –> 07:05] And you were already asked. Yeah. Go for it. Look at you. You got I think I was
just a way. It's, it's a, it's in the middle of the middle of August so we have our or whatever time
like a home is a time. But I don't know, it didn't take a thing. Well, I'm just going to preach about
Dominic, look him up and, like, try to figure out something to say.
[07:05 –> 07:21] I think it's similar to Saint Francis for the Dominicans. Right? It's not like they
have. I mean, they're a lot more well read generally than we are. And so they probably come
come across Francis a little bit more. But it's not like Francis is a part of their formation. So they
have like easy access to stories about him, memories of him.
[07:21 –> 07:29] So they probably do some research before preaching to us, which is the same
thing I always do for the Dominicans. So yeah. What about you?
[07:30 –> 07:54] I don't I don't think I'd be well, I mean, I obviously like because who. Sorry.
Who invited. Oh, I'll give the background for the audience. There's a tradition of, us calling Saint
Dominic, Holy Father, Saint Dominic, even though we're Franciscans or Holy Father. Don't
make it. Dominicans calling Francis, Holy Father Francis. And then there's the tradition of on
their feast days, like for Saint Dominic, you would have a Franciscan give the homily for Saint
Francis.
[07:54 –> 08:10] We would have the Dominican Republic. So that's what we're talking about.
Who asked you? Was it Our Lady, or was it down at like that? Same. It's fair. Civitavecchia.
Because I had been marking. I forgot it was the year of the Eucharistic pilgrimage or something.
But I've been working with with one of the mannequins I saw on a bunch of events.
[08:10 –> 08:25] And so who would your congregation have been? I think that it I don't know, I
didn't it was a ask. I never followed up with it. Besides, I couldn't do it. So I was assuming the
Dominicans. I don't know if it was like, a mass for the parish.
[08:25 –> 08:45] Yeah, because that's a strange ask for me. Like they asked me to do a parish
mass, you know, I mean, maybe, but I could see them. Just could, because they do run a parish
like, they, they they maybe don't have the luxury of, we're just going to have a just Dominican
mass because we have to do the parish stuff anyway.
[08:45 –> 09:09] But maybe they maybe they do, because I think, like to like to make it parish
where a handful of Dominicans are there. Fine. I would, I would be intimidated to preach to
Americans in general. Yeah. And specifically about Saint Dominic. That's what I would feel. I
would be like, oh man, I that I just don't have a lot of experience in that, in that space.
[09:09 –> 09:33] But you don't think the Dominican are seeing like similar footing for us? I do,
that's why I'm like, I'm always kind of like impressed when somebody says, yeah, totally, totally.
And it's kind of neat because you can just tell the difference of like our formation and our
preaching because it's typically very heady, like, well read sources, you know, cited where like
when we preach from the heart story.
[09:33 –> 09:47] Yeah. You know, and so but anyway, yeah, maybe it's vague space. I think it
was last year they gave us a minor, a little jab, which I always like, appreciate.
[09:47 –> 10:07] Because we do we do speak of Saint Francis in some pretty lofty terms. Was

this the guy who was a missionary at one point? Was is this the guy, the nosy Dominican priest?
Do you remember. You know, I'm talking about he's like a missionary of mercy. No, no, he was
missionary with us at Saint Anthony's.
[10:07 –> 10:27] Oh, maybe. Yeah. Oh, I think he referenced at one point that that's it's funny.
And, you know, like it is when we, we try to be like Saint Francis, you know, like Franciscans as
our thing, where Dominicans don't try to be like Saint Dominic. But, he gave us a jab. As far as,
again, you guys don't have microwaves, you know, like.
[10:27 –> 10:47] Yeah, people are like a really neat thing from our constitutions and like, yeah,
yeah. That this is I'm saying when you think of I think the microwaves one I remember I don't, I
don't know if there was, I don't remember now. But any of anyway, all of this is to say that we
are we are here in I'll say I'll say this.
[10:47 –> 11:15] I did fumble a little bit because, Father Innocent and I had talked about some
ideas back in the day because when I sent an email out to all of the members of this podcast,
he responded, shots fired. And he well, I'm just I'm just getting in front of why I was talking to
him and about you, about the idea, because, you know, you wanted I was just it was a shield.
[11:15 –> 11:36] It was it was a shield. It was not a it was not a spear. Not a jab. Just covering
in my self. But we are going to he had, he had sent this thing called reply pi and I've been
looking through it, which is kind of a little bit on like Francis and Francis spirituality. I said we're
going to do in October.
[11:36 –> 11:58] And then I forgot about that because we are always like a month in advance.
And so I haven't fully gone into October Saint Francis mode, even though I should have. So I
know we're doing some Saint Francis stuff again. It's the hundredth anniversary. We're
Franciscans. I understand, like generally the way these things work is like the Dominican
podcast, like God's planning.
[11:58 –> 12:17] They don't spend their whole time talking about Saint Dominic, and nor do they
they quote Aquinas quite a bit, but it's not like an Aquinas podcast. And this is Franciscans
talking about Jesus more than a like a Saint Francis podcast. But we are going to have like a
little bit extra of an emphasis on him, probably for the next maybe two months or so.
[12:17 –> 12:37] But, I always do try and, develop the thoughts or the themes so that they make
sense for those who are. Yeah. Just to kind of get to the bottom line, not Franciscans. So, so we
are just kind of going to do it. I think it's appropriate. I think it's the right thing to do. Is Santa
Saint Francis?
[12:37 –> 12:57] And yeah. So what we're going to do this month is we are. Yeah. Through
October, we have, we have, you know, four episodes. The first one is going to be a little bit
Saint Francis heavy. We're going to have a moment to kind of each of us go around and kind of
be a little bit personal about sharing some of our own, stories, history with Saint Francis and
how it's developed.
[12:57 –> 13:17] And then we're going to talk about some other themes just kind of like, really
these are like kind of questions that have come up in some of my visits. With just with people,
kind of like some themes that have come up and we'll look, we'll look at these questions and
then we'll kind of answer them in general, but also with a little bit of a focus from like the
Franciscan lens.
[13:17 –> 13:40] So that's what we got going on for this jubilee, 800th Jubilee of Saint Francis,
October. Cool. And then, and then and then we're going to get into the loves reply going forward
a little bit. I was through it. I'm not quite sure how many episodes we're in do for it, but that's. But
it's good stuff, right? I think it's a really good.
[13:40 –> 13:58] Yeah, yeah. It's intense. I mean your, your, your intense. You're, you're, you're,
you're in it these days. You're doing your hermit thing. So you're like, oh okay. So I'm just going
to keep, I'm going to make, I'm going to, I'm going to, we're going to work as a team. We're
definitely going to work at or I love when we work.
[13:58 –> 14:22] And this also works for, 45 year old construction worker Bob. You know, I love

that I'm coming after I'm coming after 45 year old construction work about. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. But we're going to make sure, you know, it works for Bob. I did we did get a compliment
on the silent series. One person wrote that it might be their favorite series ever.
[14:22 –> 14:46] That person's name was not Bob. But, so anyway, so, so so congrats. Nice
one. But just one. We just got, you know, there's there's multiple companies. There's multiple
companies care about it. Yeah. I thought it was very good. All right. So, does anyone other than
me want to kick it off here? Like, so the idea you're pointing at me.
[14:46 –> 15:06] No, I'm for. No. We are you. Yeah. It's like a Spiderman meme. We're on the
screen. And each person's point here at the screen. Yeah, just maybe it's. This isn't super cool,
but this is better. But we're not all aligned. Our make. You're to my left, father. Innocent. Okay,
but I'm happy to go first. I can, if you want.
[15:06 –> 15:22] Thank you. You go for us. Yeah. Thank you. Great. So I just need the clarity.
The question is kind of my own experience with Saint Francis and kind of house. Yeah, I would
love. I kind of where he kind of first came on your radar for like initial thoughts and then just sort
of, how that's kind of developed.
[15:22 –> 15:48] Yeah. Yeah, I was I was thinking about this theory. It seems it's going to seem
a bit pious, and then I, then I, but I would love to tell about the journey because of how it
developed. And then especially, I feel like maybe in the past, maybe ten years, I've had, like, a
new conversion to Saint Francis or wasting Francis, especially when I became a four meter ray,
where we're holding out the heart of Jesus and holding out the heart of Francis to guys.
[15:48 –> 16:09] And I was like, whoa. So I kind of fell in love with Francis all over again as a
four mater, so I'll kind of in there. But I, grew up in Wichita, Kansas, and our home parish for the
first ten years of my life was Saint Francis of Assisi. And, and it's funny I say this only because I
kind of just fascinated by, like, how God does stuff.
[16:09 –> 16:37] And so I just remember being fascinated by the statue of Francis at the parish
and as a little boy, loving mass and loving, yeah. Just like just kind of the family stuff, the mass
stuff. Remembering all my sacraments, but remembering going to daily mass. And kind of.
Yeah. Just doing. Yeah. Yeah. Just and being captivated by this statue of Francis.
[16:37 –> 17:00] And and it's unfortunate because the statue was, you know, it's the one that
has all the animals and stuff, but, it just it just caught my eye. And this this the school, because
Francis was the patron, just would tell stories and and took it some sort of seriously that this this
this was our patron at our parish.
[17:00 –> 17:24] And so I just kind of being I just kind of like, set Francis as, like this hero. And I
would just I remember my heart just being moved by his story and especially knights and knight
in shining armor. Glory, like, Yeah. Giving up everything to follow Jesus. I didn't really know
what that meant as a little boy, but I remember just being walking by the statue every day at
school and be like, wow, like, who is that guy?
[17:24 –> 17:48] And my, I remember my heart being moved by it and the stories as a little kid.
Then kind of fast forward, it wasn't really till, I mean, I kind of being Catholic and taking my faith
seriously, but the Saints didn't really become a part of my my journey until college. And it was
really when I was in seminary that, that I had like a just a consistent connection to the saints in
spiritual reading.
[17:48 –> 18:08] And, and my heart was just on fire. I, when I went to seminary, I was
captivated by the stained glass window of Maximilian Kolbe, and I was like, well, what? Who
like, who is that guy? And he was dressed in this Franciscan habit. And so he was my
connection to Francis. And so going back and reading about, like, the Franciscan saints and
and it led me back to Francis.
[18:08 –> 18:37] And I remember being in seminary, particularly in college, seminary before I
became a friar. I just remember particularly being captivated and moved by the radical ness of
Francis. So that's like the first encounter. I'm reading The Life of Francis still, but a bit from a
distance, you know, just kind of. Yeah, just moved. But I was struck by the radical ness that he

took every word of the gospel seriously, and it was like, oh, man.
[18:37 –> 18:55] And it moved me, challenged me. I was like, oh, I don't this is like too much
kind of, but I have, I have like an intensity to me as well. So there's a part of me that was moved
and I was like, whoa. Like, I didn't know God made people like this anymore. Or, that there were
stories that that could, like, move me.
[18:55 –> 19:19] So I named that my first real encounter was being moved by Francis's radical
living of the gospel radical following, and even a radical, loving, I was just kind of overwhelmed
by him, and I think in a good way. But it still was at a distance because I was like, oh, wait, like.
And then from there, I, it didn't actually take too long.
[19:19 –> 19:38] And I don't need to talk about my vocation story here, but it was really letting
kind of all this settle in my heart and letting that fire kind of burn in my heart over a period of
years. And then I met the CFR is and again, the connection of Francis in the CFR. And then it
just kind of like, started to stir from there.
[19:38 –> 20:03] So first radical ness of Francis captivated me, kind of just started to discern,
Vincent called to join the CFR, but it wasn't really till about like the last ten years where I kind of
fell in love with Francis, like the heart of Francis. Like, who was this man? And it's not going to
be surprising, but when I really started, I realized I had to I had to start teaching about this man.
[20:03 –> 20:21] Like, guys would come and be like, well, like like, tell us, who is this man?
Francis of Assisi? And then it's not going to be surprising, guys, that what what kind of caught
fire in my heart as a friar and falling in love with Francis was, that he was a deeply mystical
man. He was not only radical.
[20:21 –> 20:49] That caught my heart in college. But this radical love way of living the gospel,
had a fire and that there was a mystical fire in his heart. So I just, like, fell in love with Francis
the mystic. I started like, reading about the gift of his, like, prayer life. The gift of, like, not only
giving up everything for Jesus, but the radical intimacy you lived and how this changed his life.
[20:49 –> 21:15] And it just it just caught me and and I realized that there's so much more to this
man. Then kind of, kind of the miracle stories or, even the radical poverty giving up stuff. He
was deeply a mystic. And, that's like the fire in my heart to teach people about, like, this year,
particularly for the years Saint Francis, I've been, I've been doing a study on the contemplative
life and Francis.
[21:15 –> 21:37] So diving deep into, like, Francis's own prayer and the mystical life. And so
there's the fire in my heart to, like, bless people with, with the mystical love of Francis, the
mystical life of Francis. And and so I think that's what's really stuck is that I love Francis at the
mystic. And, I'm going to stop there. That was perfect.
[21:37 –> 21:48] That's exactly what I was looking for. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. You're welcome.
Love it. Awesome. Can I give you what you're not looking for? For the mark? Mary.
[21:48 –> 22:07] I'm going to. I'm going to call the bishop. He's over here hiding behind his
microphone. You know, I realize that. Yeah, I had to, like, speak around. Father or father?
Innocent, the face, guys talking and all. He's in. He's talking to his father, dressed in black, black
hood on Heidi and black microphone eating, eating chips. Like, totally.
[22:07 –> 22:22] No, I'm just kidding. It was a bagel, you know. Oh, is bagel post-run on mute
though? I put it on mute. I appreciate that, you could have been chomping away while, for
instance, sharing his heart about the mystical Saint Francis that he fell in love with. But I chose
better.
[22:22 –> 22:41] All right, my experience, Saint Francis. All right, I need I'm going to need a little
bit more from me. Boy, you're dressed like somebody who works backstage on a play. You
know, if you see the crew, though, they're always all dressed all in black. Yeah. All right, go
ahead.
[22:41 –> 23:07] All right, so my experience of Saint Francis, I think as a father and son, as
you're talking, probably shouldn't be doing this. I should have been listening. Interesting. Okay,
what am I going to say? What? It's my experience, and I think I think all of us are unique as

everybody. Stories that are. But I kind of grew up with Saint Francis in the sense of my mom
and my sister went on a retreat.
[23:07 –> 23:31] I think I was about 10 or 9 years old at this point with, one of the CFR, I was
doing Fortuna, and that retreat kind of changed their, their, their lives in the sense that they had,
a conversion and just start taking the faith more seriously. And so because of that, they got
involved in 2000 and I also got involved and you to up you 2000, which is like this, youth
retreats are centered around the Eucharist at the friars in the New York area.
[23:31 –> 23:53] We're really at in present. And so from that, there was a pilgrimage that was
led by Father Harold and brother Sean. And so at this point, I was ten years old and I was
invited to be on this pilgrimage to or my mom went and she dragged me along with her, which I
was grateful for. And and that's like my first experience, both the friars and also, the pilgrimage.
[23:53 –> 24:15] We stopped in a Gloria CC in Rome. And so when I was ten years old, I went
to. Yeah, I went to Assisi with Father Harold. And Father Harold's this I love Father Harold. He's
the one of the friars. And still to this day, he uses words that I have to look up at a dictionary.
Super intense man and wealth of knowledge might be arguably the most smartest man I've.
[24:15 –> 24:35] I've met, you know, and so here I am, ten years old, watching this guy speak
about Saint Francis. I'm like, who is this guy? You know, both Father Harold and also Saint
Francis. And so. And it was I do think there was like a grace, an anointing, being in Assisi,
getting to celebrate mass. Well, serving mass at that point at the tomb of Saint Francis and and.
[24:35 –> 24:58] Yeah, and just hearing stories about him. And that kind of began the interest
and it piqued. Yeah. Just my curiosity with him as a young boy and and I'd ask for books and, I
forgot who gave it to me. But somebody being well-meaning gave me a book on Saint Francis,
and I'm like 12 or 13. And it was G.K. Chesterton's Saint Francis book, and it was boring.
[24:58 –> 25:19] You know, I know it's I know it's a great book. Do you get Chesterton is a great
writer, but for a 13 year old boy, I'm like, what is this? This is a snooze fest. And so, no
disrespect, I say respectfully and, but still, I think more it was the example of the friars at this
point because once again, I had a little bit of unique privilege of of seeing the Friars and growing
up with the friars.
[25:19 –> 25:42] And so, just seeing how they lived almost gave me a tangible access in
everyday life to Saint Francis. And yeah, just seeing their simplicity, seeing their their wildness,
seeing the way they prayed, I imagine was similar to Saint Francis, or at least in my mind, or
stories I would picture. That's how the friars were, especially the early friars.
[25:42 –> 26:03] And then eventually God let me on this path to become a Franciscan friar and
similar Father Innocent like I. I remember on my two week visit, they were still like Saint Francis,
this, this legend in my mind. But like, who is he? And so I remember reading Omer and Gilbert's,
Life of Saint Francis. That went a little better for you.
[26:03 –> 26:30] That was. Yeah. At this point I was 22, and I was like, this guy's awesome.
Because already in my mind, growing up, seeing Francis, like, he was just different. Like there
was every other saint. And then Saint Francis because, yeah, just like everybody loved him. He
had the stigmata, he had these. He did these different things because, you know, I probably fell
into like one of the books, like, if you're ready and you hear like all these, these stories which
anyway, we getting to that all these stories about Saint Francis and his miracles.
[26:30 –> 27:07] And so, reading Omar Abbott's, book on Saint Francis kind of led me to a
deeper appreciation of Francis and then information, receiving classes and living as a friar. But I
guess my not a reversion, but an even deepening like appreciation for him was actually pretty
recent, within the past three years. And I had a opportunity to do three day in Assisi, and it was
just sitting at the tomb every day of Saint Francis that I really felt like he is my father and I'm his
son.
[27:07 –> 27:30] But I got to read, I don't know, remember the name of this book, but it's like it's
this cool historical book of Saint Francis on the places where he lived, but also like weaving in,
Thomas of Celano and like commentary on stuff. And so and Thomas, which is like one of the

first biographers of Saint Francis. And it was there that I just got to appreciate more of the heart
of Saint Francis and and really coming to understand who he is to me.
[27:30 –> 27:50] And I think the, the thing that I love most about city, Francis, is the fact that he
was and is, like this romantic, like he just loved he loved the Lord and he just loved with his
heart. And and he was a troubadour. He sang songs, and he was just a free man and fully in
love and engaged by the Lord.
[27:50 –> 28:11] And I came across. We came across the rock formation, but I just realized it
even more, just being in Assisi and just sitting at his feet and realizing just how much this man
was passionately in love with Jesus. And it wasn't just like, like, I love Jesus. I'm gonna give my
life. And and that's true of all the saints, but I think it comes forth even clearer in Saint Francis
with the way in which he prayed, the way in which he loved the brothers, the way in which he
loved the poor, the way in which he loved.
[28:11 –> 28:37] Period. And so it was really my third year that I could kind of look back to and
say, like, that was a cool, deepening experience of, of my love for Saint Francis in his love for
me, but even more so just the way in which he, yeah, just kind of blazed a path forward for, for
people and another thing too, is just essentially because I was at this retreat house and it's a
three day retreat.
[28:37 –> 28:57] You're supposed to be silent. But I wasn't silent, so I was talking to somebody
else. And I really, I genuinely believe this, that we have the best founder for, like, a community
meeting like Saint Francis, because I was like, yeah, Saint Dominic is cool, but like, like,
everybody loves Saint Francis, you know, like everybody has this and different, different
avenues of people.
[28:57 –> 29:16] So like, you have the people who are like super big into into ecology. You got
people who are peace loving. You have people who are, like us, like super religious. And so and
he's pretty accessible. And and from him you also get accessible saints like Saint Anthony,
Padre Pio. And so I was like, we got the I think we had the best founder.
[29:16 –> 29:33] And then somebody else is like, yeah, I, you know, like I vibe with Saint
Francis too. And so, that's also just a cool thing, you know, when you're, when your father's the
one who is, not most popular, but, like, just a lot of people love him. And so, so. Yeah. So it's in
my heart in Saint Francis.
[29:33 –> 29:52] Just the fact that, But he's a lover that he loves. Well, but even more so, seeing
the grace of God. And. Yeah, it's kind of been like a, a lifetime of Francis accompanying me as
opposed to me, like discovering him just with the friars and just different things that I had in my
life where I was able to just have access to Francis in this unique way.
[29:52 –> 29:55] And so.
[29:55 –> 30:19] Thank you father. That was strong, father. That was strong. You're welcome.
You're welcome. Thank you. Despite how you look, that was like. Yeah, I was backstage of
Backstreet Boys concert. That's that's the that's the that's the look you're giving. If you ever do
preach the Dominican, you should include that last note there about. I definitely would, you
know, it's going to have some sort of Francis Dominican job.
[30:20 –> 30:41] The the member Monsignor records class. What about it? Do you remember
there was, what council was you asking about? If Saint Francis and Council of, the the second
letter and council. Fourth Lateran Council, I think it's probably fourth letter, but also and he said
once Ricard, the super well meaning man teaching us church history did to Dominic.
[30:41 –> 31:01] And he looked at us like Franciscan scholars, like the friars in the class. And
we were just like, we just want to get out of here. We don't know what you're talking about. And
he's like, then talking to us. Did Francis and Dominic ever meet at this council? Did they ever
meet? And I said, yeah. And State Francis knocked them out like as a joke.
[31:01 –> 31:22] And then on serious. That's not. No, that's not funny. He just quickly put me in
a place I was like, of course, the analysis that is not funny is that your first year or that that was
probably first the orgy. Yeah. First, first message. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. And what

seniors. The man he's not like, super jokey, you know.
[31:22 –> 31:25] No, no.
[31:25 –> 31:29] Nice one was the other thing that you just said.
[31:30 –> 31:49] Oh, you called us. You called us super religious. I mean, we are super
religious. Have everybody else, you know? Yeah, yeah, but I just like the idea. Not of, like, but
super religious, as in, like Superman, as in, like, oh, I see, I see, I see that's what it that's what
made me think I was like in capes in superhero outfits.
[31:49 –> 32:20] I mean, yes, compared to, 99 plus percent of the world, we are all, quite
religious. Does the religious, not capital? Are so all kind of like as share. Mine is I think I heard
about. I mean, I wonder because I guess what, what I must have heard about Saint Francis
before, but I kind of heard about maybe Franciscans before Saint Francis.
[32:20 –> 32:47] All I knows, you know, I was like 18, I was okay, I had a lot of things happen. I
wanted to, like, be a priest and serve the poor. And then, I heard at some point that Franciscans
take vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. And I said, that sounds cool, I want that. But I
didn't realize that, like, all like that, there's a lot of people take vows apart, religious in
obedience.
[32:47 –> 33:06] So that's actually one of the things that put Franciscans on my, like, map, as
well as the, serving the poor. But I was actually on a, I believe I was on a come and I was on a, I
was probably 18 on maybe, maybe 19 at this point. A come and see with a group of
Franciscans out in California.
[33:07 –> 33:30] Overall, didn't I, especially in retrospect, wasn't a great thing. But, I did come
across like one of these little I was like, somewhat of, like a little kind of cheap maybe.
Biography of Saint Francis. A lot of it was, like the little flowers, like stories from, like, the little
flowers, which I think we can say for the audience, like, we don't know totally about, like, the
historical veracity of a lot of those.
[33:30 –> 34:04] But there was something to kind of echo what what Father Anderson said there
was there was, like, something super intense and radical about Saint Francis and the early
followers of Saint Francis. And that was very interesting to me. And that was kind of like the
main, for lack of a better word, maybe like criteria for me when I was looking at, like where God
was inviting me, there was just like a kind of a deep desire for, you can call it like radical quality
or totality or just kind of like intensity kind of going all in.
[34:04 –> 34:31] So that was kind of the thing. And so actually what's interesting for me, I think
with Saint Francis is, it was it was a lot of the external stuff that most captivated me, like his
intensity, his prayer, his fasting. Some of the sort of the wild public humiliations and just a lot of
that stuff. Not public militia for its sake, but just like we all in this too.
[34:31 –> 34:49] It, so anyway, so that was that. And then, you know, I think, as I, as I joined the
Franciscans and tried to live it for a period of time, I think there's like and I wonder how I'm
curious how much this so, so I'll maybe I'll say this like the first emphasis was the, the intensity
and the externals.
[34:49 –> 35:09] Right. Like, here's these, these things that he does. And so I entered religious
life as a 24 year old in 2019, sort of inspired by Saint Francis in the way that like, okay, I want to
like in some way I'm holding my myself up to the, to the line of like trying to do these things that
he did.
[35:09 –> 35:36] So there was like, yeah, I want to kind of do the stuff that he does. But then
what? What happened to me? And I think it happens a lot of guys, it's like you're not able to do
it, you know, and for a lot of, for a lot of different reasons. And so then there can, there can be a
little bit of like a stepping back or maybe even like, you could call it maybe a discouragement,
but there's just something like people might go through with Padre Pio where it's like, oh, there's
like mystical stuff and like, what do I like?
[35:36 –> 35:56] I can't do any of that. Like, what do I do with that? But then as time has gone
on, like the phrase that that's come up is, you know, if you want to live like Saint Francis, pray

like Saint Francis. There's been, there's more been more of, like, an invitation and an interest in
the interiority of Saint Francis, like the interior man.
[35:57 –> 36:18] And, you know, some of that was kind of opened up when I was writing the
book on God the Father, and just reflecting on certainly Saint Francis's own story with his
earthly father and how that affected him and affected his spiritual life. But I think that's like that's
like, again, sort of the and that's part of why maybe I,
[36:18 –> 36:37] I'm very interested. I'm much more interested in the writings of Saint Francis at
this point than than biographies about Saint Francis, because, like I think that the, the writings
kind of give you a lot more insight into the interior man. And, you know, the Lord gave me
brothers. The Lord did like, just his whole his whole thing.
[36:37 –> 36:59] And like, you kind of start to be like, oh, this is what's really happening. And I
think it's interesting. So, so that's like there's this movement towards greater interest towards the
interior interiority of Saint Francis, understanding that like, you know, the grace you receive, the
capacity for all the, the big externals was, first of all, like an interior reality.
[36:59 –> 37:31] And, he was a man who loved the most Holy trinity, more than he was a man
who loved, like, fast independence and whatever. Like, those are all sort of, consequences or
responses. And I think it's interesting because, like, you know, we, the young men who join us
tend not to be super intrigued, necessarily by, like, the birdbath Saint Francis.
[37:31 –> 37:54] Right. And I think in part because we all kind of experience it as a reduction of
Saint Francis, where it's like, yeah, there was this whole thing with like, animals and there was
like the Canticle, the creatures. But we got to like, go back to like. Like why? Like where it
comes from. But also I think, you know, because the, the issue we run into would be more of an
emphasis on the externals and the penance thing like that.
[37:54 –> 38:25] But similarly it's like but yeah, also those things are a reduction of the man of
Saint Francis there. You know, the the overtly penitential Saint Francis, I think can be
considered as much of a myth of saint or reduction of Saint Francis as, Saint Francis, like the,
you know, the pet guy, insofar as, like what, where all of this comes from is this deep interior
understanding of God and who he is and who he is in relationship with the Lord.
[38:25 –> 38:45] And particularly like with the penance stuff, it's there's if there's like it flows
from an overwhelming like gratitude and desire to be totally, completely dependent on Jesus
more than just doing hard stuff or beating himself up. So that's that's kind of my own history and
story with it. And I think there's a lot of room for for growth more.
[38:45 –> 38:51] But, that's what we're doing this episode.
[38:51 –> 39:19] Sounds awesome. Yeah. Thanks, bro. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Follow up
Mary. You're welcome father present. Appreciate your contribution to this podcast. You're very
welcome. I'm happy to to do that. You know, that I can contribute something, you know,
hopefully. Yeah. You, you entered in 2009, I answered, and you said thousand and nine. You
said 2019. I feel like, yeah, yeah.
[39:19 –> 39:43] PTI pardon the interruptions show on ESPN and they have like the corrections
guy at the end like anything they missed. And so I feel like thank you thank you I often make
that mistake I'll I'll think of I'll say entered 2019. And then instead it's maybe maybe if they're
asking me what year I and I finish high school, I might say like.
[39:43 –> 40:01] I don't know if I'll always. I'm there's another thing that I miss. It's okay, it's
okay. We accept you for who you are. Yeah. That's the you know, we're getting old. You know
it's true and it's true. That's, Yeah. I just want to say getting old, I, I was called out the other day
for my gray beard.
[40:01 –> 40:22] Is it getting that bad? You know, on the sides, it is. That's respectfully that is
like new. Someone was like, bro, look at you. I'm like, oh, gosh, I'm sorry. You just said getting
old. I just was it somebody who, like, sees you a lot or who was it? It was somebody who sees
me a lot but didn't really like, hadn't really notice or named it.
[40:22 –> 40:40] But he's like, bro, I just need to tell you this. Here's another brother. Were they

serious about, like, what? What is it? Oh, they were serious. They were like, bro, you just. I just
need to name the fact that over the past couple of years, like you've significantly grade. Is that,
like their way of saying like, are you okay?
[40:40 –> 40:55] What is that? I don't I didn't catch concerned. I didn't I didn't catch a lot of
concern. I just it's just a thing. It's just a funny thing to be intense about. Yeah. Yeah. But sorry
was but it was real. It was more just like, well, that's it's a thing rather than sign. Yeah, bro,
you're made to live forever.
[40:55 –> 41:06] Amen. Don't worry about it. In this for longevity. Yeah. I mean, we got to. We
do have to be careful of that.
[41:06 –> 41:26] Because I can get it back. That language get abused the same. I've cut you off
three times. You're trying to say some fun memory. Well, what do you try to you try to say
anyway? Maybe in another episode, but, I'll make a few closing sort of announcements, but I
am reading through the, do you guys read the abuses in in in Religious Life book?
[41:26 –> 41:46] Are you supposed to know? Okay, I know guys on the. You guys know what's
it called? No, I don't know that. I don't know the book. Once it goes to read book is written by a
Carthusian. It's. I think it's useless. It's called abuses in religion. What's it called? That's that's.
Give me. I'm reading. Fill the space for seconds.
[41:46 –> 42:06] Fill the space. Well, now I'm nervous. I can fill this space when I'm not like TT.
Let's fill a space, bro. First of all, father said, I just take a deep, deep breath. Deep breaths. Now
I'm nervous because it's all on me. No. It's good. The, That just sounds like a very intense book.
The abuses, in religious life.
[42:06 –> 42:28] And he's bad. He's back, and he called me, and we're just, I was kind to fill the
space, man. That's what you asked us to do. That's okay. It's called abuses in the religious life
and the path to healing. Oh. Come on. Like, would, first of all, in what context are you reading
this like? Meaning, I want to find out more like for information or like, time reading.
[42:28 –> 42:50] What are we looking at here? This is not nighttime reading. I said, I'm not going
to. I'm reading it in part as my role as a superior of a friary. Okay. I like that. Thanks for doing
ongoing information. I feel like that's. You're going for it there. Cool. Just so you know, I'm in I.
Yeah. And that's that's maybe an off the camera conversation.
[42:51 –> 43:08] I'm going to take a lot of initiative in my own ongoing information, bro, I love
that. I love, but I'm sorry. So we're trying to form the younger brothers to do just take initiative in
their formation. So own it. That's what we say, right? The end of a formation is to sign up,
basically to set somebody up for a life of ongoing.
[43:08 –> 43:35] Yeah, that's what I, that's how I, I, that's what I said to the guys this year at our
opening meeting. This what we're doing. I love that. So I'm not going to need a ton of
suggestions. Oh from AKA back off. It's from people I don't know. So but it's it's it's good, it's
helpful and it's, that's maybe but and again there's like so it is religious life.
[43:35 –> 44:01] There's other groups like if you have these high values of, The redemptive
ness like the like of the cross, and you have souls and eternal life, and then you have,
obedience, all of these, like, really high ideals that kind of, build upon and maybe even surpass
some human values. Like, we just have to navigate all these in a healthy way.
[44:01 –> 44:25] And there's, there's ways in which that hasn't always happened in the church.
You know, it's like a simple one is just like maybe this superior being like, no, it's God, you
know, it's God's will that you are in charge of that. You center this year. Or it's God's will that,
you, you know, are the first dealer while we're playing monopoly do on the fraternal trip because
I ask you to do it.
[44:25 –> 44:56] There's just like a certain. Okay. Anyway so that's what I, that's a, that's the
little book I'm reading. I don't know why we start talking about that, but. Hey, so for the listeners,
the last closing thoughts is, we do have in part of it to celebrate and punctuate the the 800
jubilee anniversary is we're doing a like this kind of video project where we have a, a video
coming out on our channel, the CFR YouTube channel, every Friday that has like just different

friars.
[44:56 –> 45:11] So we're trying to get out to like, every friary and get as many guys as
possible. So there's a lot of like, talks going up, and there's a chance for you to hear from
people that you've never met or never heard about before. So and we love the support on that
and maybe even subscribing to the channel, we're kind of within 100,000.
[45:11 –> 45:28] So that would be kind of cool to do. Subscribers. And then also there's these,
first time maybe we talk about it some more in a future episode. These, these eye videos of
Father Benedict Rochelle, who's one of our founders, he's deceased. And, they just put this
whole thing clearly in eye. So it's like a picture of him.
[45:28 –> 45:55] I video, I script, I topic, I sort of like, clickbaity title. And people are believing it
and listening to it, like, in some cases hundreds of thousands of people. That's crazy. So any
help it's in if you just type in Father Benedict video, these are the ones that are come up or it's
like eternal truth. Something about the website you want him to go and help to report that we're
just trying to get it down.
[45:55 –> 46:16] We're using the means YouTube gives us, but we're also just I'm also trying to
find people who know people at YouTube. So any help with that would be great. Cool, cool
sweet shout outs you to pray first or shout out, I would like to pray first. Okay, I'm only in prayer.
Go for it, father, son, Holy Spirit.
[46:16 –> 46:42] Amen. Good and gracious father, we give you thanks for the gift of our
sonship, but even more so just a gift of Saint Francis and in his heart for you and the way in
which he's modeled, how to love you. We pray for his graces at this time to to be a lover of you
in a way that that you desire for us, that we can ultimately give you our hearts in a way that's
true, in a way that's beautiful.
[46:42 –> 47:04] That's good. I mean, this is all through Christ our Lord. Amen, Amen. Saint
Francis, pray for us. Father, son, Holy Spirit. Amen. Many shout out. I want to shout out that the
Buddha I talked to him recently. He's a big fan of the podcast. Love the silent series as well.
And so just beautiful. Beautiful. Yes.
[47:04 –> 47:27] Beautiful Grace is going on for him. So you're awesome, Matt, I'd like to shout
out Evelyn. So to Kira and Alex and Yvonne. Wow. The family. I got nothing. Okay. Sweet. All
right, all right. Thanks, guys, b c everybody.
[47:27 –> 47:32] (Music)